Cecile Richards - Re-Loaded
WHAT DO YOU THINK NEEDS DOING?
"FEARLESS CREATIVE LEADERSHIP" PODCAST - TRANSCRIPT
Episode 401: Cecile Richards - Re-Loaded
Here’s a question. What do you think needs doing? And are you doing it?
I’m Charles Day. I work with creative and innovative companies. I’m asked to help their leaders discover what they’re capable of and then to maximize their impact.
Welcome to the intersection of strategy and humanity.
This week’s episode is a re-publication of my interview with Cecile Richards from March 2020. It was the last in-person interview I recorded before the world shut down two days later.
Forgive me, for a moment. I want to take you on a short journey.
For those of you that don’t know her, Cecile Richards is one of the most extraordinary leaders of our time. Of any time, actually.
Public service and activism are part of her DNA.
She’s perhaps best known for the 12 years she spent as the President of Planned Parenthood.
Her mother — Ann Richards — shattered conventional wisdom when, as a woman and a Democrat, she was elected Governor of Texas in 1990.
In the seventh grade, Cecile was taken to the principal’s office for wearing an armband in protest of the Vietnam War.
In the eighth grade, she brought food to the strikers on a picket line in her hometown of Austin.
Her first job after college, was as a union organizer in New Orleans, helping hotel workers trying to get by on minimum wage.
Today, she’s the co-creator of Charley, a bot that helps abortion seekers get good and accurate information on how to safely end their pregnancies.
Cecile has been called “the most badass feminist EVER” and “The heroine of the resistance”.
She inspires women of all ages, in all walks of life. And she inspires many men, too.
When I interviewed her in 2020, I called the episode, “The Blessed Leader”.
Usually when I go back and listen to an earlier episode, my reason for the name I came up with is pretty clear.
In this case, it wasn’t. She didn’t describe herself as blessed. The word blessed is not a common part of my vocabulary. And there was nothing about the conversation that suggested “blessed” was an obvious description.
The world has changed since she and I last spoke, and I badly wanted to hear her thoughts on the damage to women’s rights that has taken place since 2020, as well as her views on the aftermath of COVID on society.
I reached out to her a few weeks ago, but hadn’t heard anything back. Then early last week, I saw a link to an article that made my heart miss a beat.
The headline read: “Planned Parenthood’s Cecile Richards has brain cancer”,
This woman is a presence, when you meet her in person. She radiates warmth and strength and determination. She is unforgettable.
Her brain cancer is incurable and has a median survival rate of 15 months. She was diagnosed six months ago.
I’ve included a link to the article in the show notes and now I’m going to quote directly from the article, in which she describes learning to write and speak again at the age of 66.
“Her latest treatment is twice-weekly infusions through a clinical trial. ‘I mean, it’s like, What do I gotta do to stay alive? I’m good with it. It’s totally manageable, but these things are unpredictable. So I feel like it has helped me focus on what I want to do with the time I have. And I’m excited. I’ve been blessed.
‘I’ve been blessed to have always had work that I cared about,” Richards continues. “So many people I’ve worked with and organized, nursing-home workers and hotel workers and janitors, they didn’t have any options. And they worked because they cared about their jobs, but they worked because they had to support a family. But I have been one of the really privileged few that could do what I thought needed doing. And so whatever comes next, I have that.’”
“I have been one of the really privileged few that could do what I thought needed doing.”
“I’ve been blessed.”
So let me end as I began by asking all of us, myself included, a question.
What do you think needs doing? And are you doing it?
Here’s Cecile Richards, re-loaded.
—————
Charles:
Cecile, welcome to Fearless, thanks so much for joining me.
Cecile Richards:
Absolutely.
Charles:
When did creativity first show up in your life, when are you first conscious of creativity being a thing?
Cecile Richards:
So, I'm not artistic, I'm not musi- all, I guess, for me, creativity was a little bit just like building something where nothing else existed, and so I think of my early experiences of being more, when I started the first recycling club in seventh grade, I think it was Youth Against Pollution, which is a very unfortunate acronym, but, it was because no one was doing anything to recycle cans or bottles and so I organized a little group of seventh graders that we did that, and to me, the idea that you could, have some thought or see a problem and then try to create something to fix it has always been very exciting.
And I've kind of been doing that my whole life. So I'm not sure if that really hits at what, the way you think about creativity but to me it is, like, being able to imagine, well one, being able to imagine a future that's different and then trying to build it, and finding a gap, or finding a need, that isn't being met.
Charles:
And was that always through the lens of helping others? I mean, that sounds like a pretty early reference point for that.
Cecile Richards: (4:54)
Yeah, I think that's really when I realized, "Oh, I could just keep doing this," and I did it in college and then I sort of became an organizer right out of college, and then I've started, I guess, you know, several nonprofits, always with just sort of some burning desire to change something, and looking around and thinking, "Well, who else is going to do it?" And if there wasn't someone then I would.
So, I guess that's the way I think about channeling whatever creative spirit I have. And I love it, I mean, it's how you meet the most amazing people, it's how you learn about what does and doesn't work and, and it is how, if you're on a lucky day, you actually do make some kind of change in the world that, that makes it all worth it.
Charles:
Your parents were obviously activists and change agents themselves, right? Is that where that came from, do you think? I mean, where do you think the DNA for wanting to make change for other people came from for you?
Cecile Richards:
Well I mean, both my parents were agitators and troublemakers and of course my mother ran for public office so she became an elected official, and they just believed in giving back, and they came from a very different kind of background, and also they were really young parents at an era in the middle of the Vietnam war, of many of the social movements of the 60s, the Civil Rights Movement and the Women's Movement and the Labor Movement and they jumped into those, and I think, my upbringing was, that your job in this world was to make a difference, somehow. And if you were lucky enough, that might be what you could do for a living, and, and so I do think they -- they weren't creators in that sense, although my mother, I think was, because women weren't running for office, really for the most part when she did, but I do think they were big believers in don't just, like, identify a problem, go fix it. Go solve it.
Charles:
Your mother was a very visible-
Cecile Richards:
(laughs)
Charles:
... Person, right?
Cecile Richards:
Yes.
Charles:
I mean, she showed up in a very specific way and, and obviously needed to back in the day to actually be able to be successful in what she was doing.
Cecile Richards:
(laughs) It's just funny. When you say, "She's in a very visible way," people may not know but, she had an enormous bouffant hairdo, and, you know, I'll go into a diner in a rural Texas town and I'll see someone who is a dead ringer for Ann Richards. She was recognizable on the street because of her big hairdo, and, um, and also she grew up in a time in which women were supposed to look a certain way and behave a certain way, and she was a product of, you know, depression-era parents, and her mother always telling here there was sort of a right and wrong way to do everything. So mom was a real, she had an idea of how she was supposed to show up in the world, and she did that. I mean, God love her that she was able to somehow make it through, and I think you know, it was one of the ways she did you know, people actually in Texas, even when she was defeated when she ran for reelection for Governor, people still really liked her because they kind of relate to her, even if they thought she was too Liberal, you know, which she probably was.
Charles:
How did you find your own identity in that context? I mean, that's a, that's a very powerful presence to be around so much and to see somebody being successful, showing up that way, you have a very different personal style. How have you found your own voice?
Cecile Richards:
Well, I suppose I never really was even, I mean, I, I had ... By the time she ran for office I had left home and I become a union organizer which is about as far from anything that my mother would have imagined doing. And really my entire life was so formed by those early years out of college, working with women, earning the minimum wage, cleaning hotel rooms, working in nursing homes, working as janitors. I was part of a social movement that really was about bringing other folks along and providing opportunity and then kinda getting out of the way.
Politics is a very different field. I mean it, it relies on you to be so completely confident in how good you are and smart you are and articulate and, you know, could do all these things and I think I just came out of a different cultural, movement orientation. So, I don't know exactly how I ended up the way I am, but I do think those early days of spending all my waking hours with working people and figuring out how we could make something better. those are the women that still have such an influence on my life.
Charles:
Getting up close to that, what did you learn, what were the lessons that you learned from watching those people dealing with their lives?
Cecile Richards: (9:34)
It was like the women who had the very least, and in some ways the very most to lose because they were supporting a family on minimum wage or they were trying to hold on to a job, um, often the only person, only bread winner in their family and yet they were willing to risk what little they did have. to try to make life better if not for themselves, they really wanted the young women that were coming after themselves to do better. And they were so inspiring. It's a different way of looking at things. I mean I talk to young women now, I talk to people who just say they just can't go on and that this is so you know, such a challenging environment. And I think look, you don't know what hurting is until you've worked a 14 hour double shift cleaning hotel rooms in New Orleans for minimum wage. And you can do more, and it's okay. You know?
And there are people who are doing more. It's always made me incredibly grateful that I'm allowed to choose what I do for a living and that I get to do a job that actually maybe makes the world a little bit better. There are so many people, the vast majority of women in this country, who never have that option.
Charles:
Did you always want to lead?
Cecile Richards:
No, I don't think so. But I always had an opinion, I mean, that I do get from my parents, I'm really opinionated, (laughs). And so at some point, yeah, I just felt like I knew that, that things could be better and that I could maybe make a difference in making things better, but no I don't think I was a natural leader.
Charles:
Do you like leading?
Cecile Richards:
I do. I mean there's just nothing quite like the joy of seeing people come together, having some role in people coming together and figuring out that they can make change and then doing it. I don't need to be in the front of the parade, I just love creating something where nothing existed before, and that's sort of been my whole trajectory.
Charles:
So you're always stepping into new situations?
Cecile Richards:
Yeah, I mean I've quit more jobs probably than anybody that you know, but I mean I had the luxury of doing that. Of always believing that there will be something else out there. I mean I think with a lot of folks, you feel like once you've learned how to do something then you're ready to go do the next thing. I did stay at Planned Parenthood for the longest of anything I've ever done, it was twelve years and there was another, there was another hundreds of years of work left to do there but also it was important to me even there to say okay, I've done the piece that I can do, it's been the job of a lifetime but now someone else can do this, and that's important also I think, to pay it forward in that way. Move out of the way, let other people lead.
Charles:
So when you walk into a situation, into a new position, are you conscious about what it is you're trying to achieve, do you have a kind of a measurement for success that allows you to say I've done the part that I can do, or are you feeling your way through this, experientially and organically.
Cecile Richards:
Well I think it can be both ways, so it's interesting, when I went to work at Planned Parenthood, I had to take on the presidency of Planned Parenthood, it was like nothing I'd ever seen before, I mean it was a huge organization, a hundred years old, health care deliverer to like, millions, literally millions of patients. So it was much more about how do you take something that is a huge institution and maybe shift it slightly and figure out where you can actually make impact as opposed to what I'm doing now which is saying, oh my gosh if I run into another woman on the subway who asks me what she's supposed to do to change the world I don't know what I'm going to do so we better start something, which is really how Supermajority was created, was saying, women are, at this moment you can't, it's unavoidable. They want to change the world in a productive way, and if we don't start meeting that need we will have lost this opportunity.
So this is much more of a circumstance where you find some other women who agree and then you try to figure out how to build it. It's much more um, trial and error you know, sort of rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse repeat, and that's what we've been doing for the last nine months.
Charles:
When you walked into Planned Parenthood, were you conscious of the risk that you were taking on a personal level, I mean obviously it has a very, very visible platform, right? It is both beloved and essential and vilified equally. What was your perspective on the risk to you when you took that job?
Cecile Richards:
Oh, I think the biggest risk to me was that I would be a failure. I was never looking to preserve my reputation for any future thing, I figure this is the only life we have, and what an opportunity to make as big a difference as you possibly could. When they called me for the interview I almost didn't go, not because of that, not because I was afraid well what will people think of me, but much more like, I've never done anything this big. And so a mixture of sort of, initial excitement and flattery, and then a second you know, reaction of just sheer panic. And I remember calling my mom and said, "I just don't think I can go to this interview." And she said, "You just get over yourself, this is the most important thing that you could ever possibly do and what's the worst thing that could happen?"
And to me the worst thing that could happen, that I would just be a failure and that I would have to do something else. And she said, well then just go do it. And I try to tell that to other women because I do believe we second guess women in particular, second guess ourselves. I mean there's a lot of writing about the imposter syndrome, there's a lot of, we think as women that we're supposed to know all the answers, be able to make a hundred on the test before we do the next thing, and my motto now is start before you're ready. You know, just do it and it'll all fall in place. And if it doesn't work then you'll do something else. And I do believe this is such an exciting moment for women and women running for office that never imagined running for office before.
Taking all kinds of risks, and I hope that we're changing culturally in that way because that's not how we were, generally not how we were raised.
Charles: (15:21)
Were you ever personally threatened at Planned Parenthood, were threats made against you?
Cecile Richards:
Oh yeah, oh yeah. In fact, don't read my Twitter feed, it's so ugly, (laughs). But look, if you're trying to make real change in the world, whether it's right a wrong or push government forward or anything that's of real value, there are going to be people who don't like what you're doing. And I don't mean you don't have to be aware of that, and listen to that, and I think one of the most important things about being a good leader is being a good listener. But you can't let that hold you back. Now, I say that from a position of enormous privilege. I have the privilege to make trouble, as my book says. I have the privilege to choose what I do for a living. And I think those of us who can, should. And we should also do what we can to support other women who want to do more, because it isn't that easy for everybody.
I meet women all the time who say, I'm so excited you started, so for example now, Supermajority. I can't wait to get involved because I can't talk to my parents about women's rights. I can't talk to my boss about equal pay, but I really want to do something about it. And so I do think it's important to recognize that just because that's my lived experience, it isn't for millions and millions of women in this country.
Charles:
I'm interested in your comment on your social media chain. So many people are fixated by that kind of feedback and those references. How do you remove that from your own consciousness?
Cecile Richards:
Well I mean, I just think don't read the comment section, it's not going to do you any good. I mean they're just some basic tips. And I don't live on social media, and I think it's so important to get out and talk to people and I think it was, it's been fascinating even this political cycle to for people to begin to understand that a lot of what you read on social media wasn't even written by a person. It wasn't even, I mean there was just an easy way to kind of go down the rabbit hole and not keep perspective. And to me what I love about what I do is I meet actual people every day, both the women I work with, women I meet out in the field, and that's actually where you really learn about what people think about either what you're doing, or about issues you care about or the state of the world, it's so much more than social media.
So look, I think it has a valuable role to play, but I think too many people begin to equate what they read on social media with how people feel in the world. It's a self-selecting group of people that spend all day on Twitter.
Charles:
I think most people are afraid of not having success, a lot of people are afraid of a threat to their reputation. What's your relationship with fear?
Cecile Richards:
I mean, I usually just say I'm like really not afraid of anything. And I'm sure I am afraid of something. But I guess I have been blessed if you would say, to live a life where I have not really been afraid. I've taken risks and I mean there's things I am afraid of, I've never jumped out of a airplane, I'm probably never going to do that, I mean there were certain things that I have just had the wherewithal to avoid doing. But I definitely don't live a life of fear. If anything, maybe this is a cop out but I think if there are things I'm fearful of, it's that I won't be able to do enough fast enough to make enough of a difference. It's a different kind of fear, sort of maybe the fear of irrelevancy perhaps.
Charles:
Most organizations are focused on you know, how do we succeed? Right, how do we become viable, meaningful, relevant? Most organizations, very very few, are placed under the kind of visibility and the kind of threat that Planned Parenthood was. How do you lead an organization that's dealing in that kind of environment? How do you create an environment within that organization that allows other people to step in, take risks, knowing that there is such a bright light shining on them, and the consequences to your point are so significant to other people?
Cecile Richards: (19:35)
Right, well I mean there were definitely, there were, there great days, and there were tough days. And one thing that people may not realize, well two things, I'd say. One is that people who come to work at Planned Parenthood, everyone from the receptionist at the front desk of a clinic, to someone who's working in Washington on policy, no one gets there by accident, you know? So these are folks who have already made some decisions that this is what they're going to do. And I think any, every day, I used to feel when I first started that you know, before I even got out of bed there were so many detractors and so many things trying to put us out of business, keep us from doing our job.
And one of the most difficult times of course was when we faced the defunding, potential defunding under this new administration, which we beat by the way. But I was trying to figure out like, how to just keep going, because we didn't have the votes to you know, in the senate, it was complicated. And I remember a friend of mine who works in the environmental field. He said, "Well just think about it and calculate the number of people that come in every day." And so I did and I realized that every day that we were able to stay open approximately, five thousand six hundred and eighteen people got healthcare that day.
And so in a way, that was a really good way to focus my energy, so I didn't have to solve all of our problems every single day, I just had to make sure that we kept moving forward. And if we could keep the doors open, people were going to get care, and I think it helped our staff too. And of course our doors are still open, not that there aren't still a lot of battles ahead.
Charles:
What were the main leadership lessons you learned from Planned Parenthood? It sounds like just making progress is clearly one.
Cecile Richards:
(Laughs), yeah.
Charles:
...one of them.
Cecile Richards:
Yeah exactly. Well I know, and it's funny because people ask like, well what was the biggest problem at Planned Parenthood. The biggest problem was politics, like so many things I'm so proud of like, we focused on bringing care and information online and now it's something incredible now, more than a hundred million people go the Planned Parenthood online every year now, either to order birth control, to get an appointment, to get information. And of course we design new kinds of birth control, in fact a new, right as I was leaving, we had done the clinical trials on a self-injectable birth control shot that was good for three months, which is extraordinary, which means a woman doesn't have to come back you know, every month to get her birth control pills.
So in the meantime, all this good advance in terms of healthcare was happening, lowest rate of teenage pregnancy in the history of the US, and on the other side, having to do a political battle with people who just want to shut your doors. And so I think that being able to balance those two things, make sure that you're not on defense 90% of your time, but that you're on defense maybe 25% and 75% is actually moving forward. I think is just a really important leadership skill to have and something that I think we did. The other thing that is, I think related to how you use your time, we saw at Planned Parenthood, probably about two and half million patients every year and for many of them we were their only health care provider.
But we also had a chance when the Affordable Care Act was being considered, to push for women's health to get covered, which would affect honestly, many more patients than just our patients. And I'll never forget the day that President Obama called me to say he was going to announce, at the White House that now birth control was going to get covered for everyone at no cost. And then we went from serving two and a half million patients to something like 70 million women getting free birth control. That's where you also have to you know, you can't be so focused on your own institutional needs that you, that you can't also think about okay, what's the big picture? Because we had the opportunity to really change things for a generation of women, which I think we did.
Charles:
How much of what Planned Parenthood does is actually birth control? What ...
Cecile Richards:
That's a good question. Well, about, I would say five to ten percent of the services are abortion related services, or probably even less than that. And the rest of it is a combination of birth control, pap smears, STI testing and treatment, we're now doing more transgender care in many many states. For some women we actually do their annual, we're their only health care provider so they come and get their annual physical. So, it's a really sort of wraparound service, but I don't know exactly literally the number of birth control um, but we're the biggest provider, at least in the, in the kind of, systems that we work in at birth control, and we provide, unlike, I mean this is probably more than you'll ever want to know, but it's very rare to be able to go some place where you can get any form of birth control that's approved by the FDA. And it's really important, that's how women get the best, or anyone who wants to use birth control, they get the very best kind if they can have all their options, and unfortunately mainstream medicine hasn't quite got there yet.
Charles:
The people who are opposed to Planned Parenthood, who, who were really vehemently opposed to it, are they fundamentally opposed to the, to the birth control component? Or is it Planned Parenthood in general?
Cecile Richards:
Yeah, I don't think they really distinguish any of it. And look I, the vast majority of people in this country support Planned Parenthood and they want Planned Parenthood. In fact I think something like one in four women in this country have been to Planned Parenthood for healthcare.
Charles:
Yes.
Cecile Richards:
That's a pretty big market share.
Charles:
Yeah it's a staggering number. Yeah.
Cecile Richards: (24:57)
And so, clearly we're meeting a need that that is not being met by the, by the healthcare system writ large for a whole host of reasons. But unfortunately, I think just as our politics in America have become so, so divisive, and when just frankly the Republican party which really was kind of the party of birth control and small government, began to adopt this position, it meant that members of congress and state legislatures sort of vote in lockstep with that position. And I don't, again, it is absolutely not where the majority of people in this country are. But we're caught up in these political winds, and not just Planned Parenthood, I feel like so many of majoritarian values and ideals in this country are kind of getting lost in a hyper-partisan battle.
Charles:
Yeah I couldn't agree with you more. You said that you reached a point where you recognized that for, for you, your time at Planned Parenthood should come to an end. How hard a decision was that?
Cecile Richards:
Well it, it was hard, but it was also I just knew it was the right thing. It's really hard for people to leave these excellent, fantastically important jobs. I mean I'll never have a job like that again, where you can make a huge difference and work with an extraordinary team of people, I probably miss the people as much as anything else. But I really believed and we worked hard on when I was there, in investing in a whole new generation of leaders, particularly young women of color. And I felt like it was time for me to make space, and of course now Alexis McGill Johnson, who's the CEO of Planned Parenthood, fantastically talented, just so proud of her.
And I think it's the kind of the same way I feel about politics is some folks have got to move over and make, there's not enough room for everybody and if we're really going to have a government that looks like us, I mean, some people are going to have to make space for some new people. So anyway, I was trying to, I guess, you know, walk the walk a little bit.
Charles:
What had you learned at the end that you wish you'd known at the beginning when you walked in the door?
Cecile Richards:
Oh my gosh, so many things, I was so, I had no idea what I was doing. I don't know what, there's one specific thing, but when you work for a mission based organization like Planned Parenthood - although it's probably true for business, media, whatever. There's about 800 million things you could do, to solve. And what was really important to me is that we were just going to focus on three things, and just try to do them really really well. And that meant putting our money into them, that meant you know, hiring a staff to do them.
Because that is something I learned from my experience in other movements is you really only get results if you invest your time and money in things, and we did that. I'm just grateful that I stayed long enough to see the results. To understand that yes, one thing we invested in was technology and realizing we could see millions more people, if not literally, but we could be in touch, provide them what they needed, and they didn't have to come into our clinics. And that was really hard, because we had a model that was dependent on people being in our clinic. But I'm glad we did because it, it just exponentially changed our ability, our footprint and our ability to change, and investing in young people. As I said, when we first started, people would say where are all the young people? You know, and I think people of a certain age would feel like, well they're ungrateful, they don't know all the things we did to get them these rights.
And I said, well that's not really their job, to be grateful. We need to bring them in, and I really think that was an important investment as well, and of course the Affordable Care Act was, it has changed the opportunities for so many people. I hope we can hold on to it. So yeah, I guess focus. and being willing to say there's some things you're just not going to do, not that they're not important, but you can't do everything.
Charles:
Leadership in general is lonely.
Cecile Richards:
(Laughs).
Charles:
And, right, and leadership when you're run, running organizations like Planned Parenthood and Supermajority, where you're trying to make the kind of difference that you're trying to make, can be even lonelier. Who, who do you talk to, where do you go to provide you with feedback, check me on this, help me through this, what, what's your support network?
Cecile Richards:
No it is, it's funny. The, well one of my best friends is Anthony Romero who runs the ACLU. And whatever was going on with me, it didn't even touch what he was dealing with, (laughs), or vice versa. I still talk to him. And so definitely having colleagues that were also kind of in the cross hairs and on the front lines of so many important issues was really important. I mean, Anthony is a very rare person and just an incredible leader of, and just a great buddy and friend. And we could talk about not only what was happening in the external world but our own internal worlds and managing all of that. There were a handful of people like that, and then I guess my kids.
I mean one thing I would, I think I'm really lucky, I have three kids. And I don't care how bad your day is, when you can actually pick up the phone and talk to one of your kids, it's all worth it, right?
It puts everything in perspective. And I'm really, for me at least that has been probably saving grace.
Charles: (30:16)
When you decided to start Supermajority, what made you decide that this was the thing that you wanted to focus your energy on now?
Cecile Richards:
Well, partly because I was deciding to leave Planned Parenthood and we had, we had at that point, I think had organized, we have about twelve million supporters, but I also knew there were so many more women where reproductive issues were just not on their top of mind, that that wasn't what brought them in but they were concerned about equal pay or that they couldn't get affordable childcare, or all the things that are sort of been, just frankly, fundamental barriers for women forever, since dinosaurs roamed the earth.
And I had written a book called Make Trouble and had done a big book tour, and everywhere I went that was the only thing that I got asked consistently. Which is, what can I do? Women just saying, I feel like things are changing in this world, we need them to change, and I know that I can play a role in doing that. And was why the idea of Supermajority was boy, if all these women across issues and race and generation and experience could begin to come together and support each other we could probably change a lot of things in this country because most of the things that women want changed, they're good for the economy, they're good for everything.
But, I think there's a lot of solutions we know out there, there's policy solutions, we just haven't built the political will to get them done. So that's what I hope we could do.
Charles:
There are a number of groups that are working to help women support women, Supermajority obviously being a very prominent one. Why do you think that's the conversation and the focus, why is their not more attention being paid to let's find people who want to empower women, I mean there are, there are a lot of men for instance right?
Cecile Richards:
Right.
Charles:
Who, who want to get, who want to live in a world run by women, frankly, I ...
Cecile Richards:
Or just at least where we're like, all, at least we're running it together.
Charles:
Yeah, I'd settle for women first, let's try that.
Cecile Richards:
(Laughs), yeah we gave you guys your chance, yeah, yeah.
Charles:
Yeah, because this isn't working so well but ...
Cecile Richards:
No, I think that's, look, it's a very good point and we actually, I remember a funny call I got from Jane Fonda when we first launched supermajority. She says, "My friend Mary Steenburgen wants to know can her husband join?" And her husband is Ted Danson, I said of course he can join. So we have, actually, we have a ton of men, we're for gender equity in all of it's forms, right? It's just it happens to be that, this is a moment where women are realizing, if we actually begin to talk together across some of the, I would say, some of the divides that we've had, we are a supermajority in this country.
And again, I don't think that, I don't think any of us are driven to have this supremacy over other people. But it's just a recognition that for, for too long and certainly our most recent experience in this presidential race as an example, there's just a lot of, a lot of things that haven't happened yet for women. But you're exactly right, our own research shows that men want women to have opportunities. They want them to be in office, and often times whether it's right or not they think of this through the lens as fathers. They want their daughters to have every opportunity that their son will have and that's a radical shift. But you're right, ultimately I think the dream is we should have representative government that represents everybody.
Charles:
Yeah it can't happen soon enough, right?
Cecile Richards:
Yeah. I mean the US is so far behind in that arena, as much progress as all these women have made, and 2018 was just an extraordinary year, like more women, more women of color to the United States congress, but we're still about 71st in the world in terms of women's representation and obviously I think as of last week, just hit another skid in the road, on the opportunity to elect a woman president.
Charles:
Obviously with Elizabeth Warren dropping out.
Cecile Richards:
Yes.
Charles:
Enormous conversation about why can this country not elect a woman president? 2016, Hilary actually won the major, won, won the majority of the vote, right?
Cecile Richards:
Correct.
Charles:
Three million more people. If we could gm, the percentage of white women who voted for her, slightly higher, 45,000 votes across Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania would have swung that election.
Cecile Richards:
Correct.
Charles:
We wouldn't have this conversation. I'm struck by the fact that as I look back from Reagan forward, the people who have won the presidency have all been men, obviously.
Cecile Richards:
Correct.
Charles:
One of them was a black man. Every one of them ran on a platform of some version of hope. I voted for Hilary and I donated to Hilary, I never knew what Hilary was running for other than it was her turn and she was a woman and Trump was terrible. But there was no vision of the country would be better off other than we'll have a woman president. And we, a lot of us bought into that, the majority of us bought into that. Elizabeth Warren's platform was, I will fight for you. What I wonder is, I don't think people are particularly drawn to fighting ...
Cecile Richards:
They aren't.
Charles:
It sounds, right, it sounds hard.
Cecile Richards:
Right.
Charles: (35:06)
Do you think it's that we can't find the right candidate? Or, have we not found the right message?
Cecile Richards:
Oh it's such a complicated question. The meta to me is there are no perfect candidates and there are no perfect campaigns, and when someone wins or someone loses we draw a lot of conclusions that are as you say, 45,000 votes, we would be drawing a completely different kind of conclusion, so I try not to over having worked on many, on both winning and losing campaigns, some of it's just the luck of the draw or the roll of the die.
Just putting Elizabeth aside, Elizabeth wasn't the only highly competent run, woman running. I'd say there were many. Elizabeth made it to the end. But I think it's hard to draw a conclusion that this was just about Elizabeth Warren losing.
My daughter who worked for Kamala would say it just, "It's not that women can't meet the bar, it's the bar keeps changing." And so, it's either we're too competent, we're too this, we're too that. And so I do think we have a real reckoning in this country about what we expect. Because, I've never worked on a campaign where the candidate was per, it's like people say about my mom, how did she lose reelection?
Charles:
I know, I wondered that too.
Cecile Richards:
She's so great. Well it's like, it's almost like how did we, what was the miracle that let us win the first election? It was like the stars and the moon and everything aligned, and three days earlier or three days later we would have lost. It was because her opponent you know, made a huge mistake and we just kinda hit it at the right moment. There's always a lot of you know, Monday, what do you call it, monday morning quarterbacking, doesn't always help us understand. Because even if you could point to things that Elizabeth, you would have done differently, she was still, and I interviewed all six candidates.
Charles:
Yeah I saw them.
Cecile Richards:
She was spectacular.
She could walk into the oval office tomorrow, we would not be deal, we would not be all flipping out about the coronavirus, we would not, I mean we might, at least we would have a plan from the federal government.
Charles:
For sure.
I just wonder if we need to split this into who is the person that can do the job best once they get in the door, and how do you sell that person, right?
Cecile Richards:
Of course, that's always the question.
Charles:
It's just, it's two different games right?
Cecile Richards:
I mean it's a longer conversation, but it is heartbreaking to think that we got this far. I do hope that there, that there will be a woman on this ticket, that would be a vice president candidate, and that will at least get us one step further.
Charles:
Yes and, at that point maybe having a really old white man might work to our benefit because he's not going to be able to serve two terms.
How do you lead?
Cecile Richards:
Hm, um, (laughs), well I don't know, I mean, I feel I should have a pat answer for this. I guess there's just things I've learned about leadership. I think to be a really good leader, the most important skill is to be a really good listener. And I actually think this applies to politics as well as other kinds of leadership. My mother used to say, "People don't do things for your reasons, they do things for their own reasons." And so unless you can actually listen to people and understand their motivations and where they're coming from, it's really hard to drive a path forward., I guess part of how I hope I lead is taking joy in the success of others too.
Certainly with women that's what I'm seeing now is just this, it used to be there was only room for one, and now I think women are realizing actually there's room for all of us. And particularly as I've now been doing this work for a long long time, there's nothing that gives me greater joy than seeing young women, honestly fast forward. I'm thinking, "Oh my god I wish when I had first started in the labor movement or the non profit movement that I knew the things that they know now."
You know, and that is exciting because like, probably like, we could, make that curve a little bit less steep. It's funny, when I started in the labor movement someone said you know, a leader is someone who has followers, and I don't know that I really believe that anymore. I think a leader really is someone who can listen to other people, begin to forge, you know, forge consensus, forge a path, and then keep people moving. I just don't believe in the, the theory that a person makes change. I think a person in an ideal way moves with other people and you make change together. Because at the end of the day that's the only way anything is really different, is if people believe they have ownership and they feel success about how the world has changed.
I hope that's what we're seeing now, and it's, I mean it is the concede of Supermajority. Is that if women actually did sort of link arms and work together and lift each other up, we can change things not just this year, but this entire century and I think women will.
Charles: (40:08)
I certainly hope you're right. I wrap every episode normally with three takeaways that I've heard.
Cecile Richards:
Oh my gosh.
Charles:
But in your case I think there is clearly one. It's so obvious to me. Everything you do is in service of other people, everything. There is nothing that I perceive about you that has anything to do with you or how you see yourself or your own place, it is about how you can actually lead other people to help them lead more fulfilling, better, more rewarding lives, is that fair?
Cecile Richards:
Well I mean that's a, that's an awfully nice thing to say, I, I haven't been successful all my life in doing that but it is what drives me. And I feel very lucky to get to do something like that. What an incredible joy and delight. And to meet others who want to do that as well, yeah, I've led a very blessed life.
Charles:
Thank you so much for joining me, what a pleasure.
Cecile Richards:
Absolutely, thanks for coming down. Good to see you.
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