Leading In The Time Of Virus
"FEARLESS CREATIVE LEADERSHIP" PODCAST - TRANSCRIPT
Episode 202: Mindy Grossman
Hi. I’m Charles Day. I work with creative and innovative companies, coaching their leaders to maximize their impact.
This episode is our second of Season 2, which we’ve sub-titled, “Leading In the Time of Virus”.
These are shorter, focused conversations in which we discover how some of the world’s most innovative and creative leaders are adapting their leadership to our new reality.
These people are among the world’s best problem solvers.
This episode is a conversation with Mindy Grossman - the CEO of WW - formerly Weight Watchers.
Mindy is one of the clearest, and most effective leaders I’ve ever met.
We talked about hiring for culture, about practicing offense versus defense in times of crisis and about empowering other people to lead.
Here’s Mindy Grossman.
Charles: (00:51)
Mindy. Welcome back to Fearless. Thank you so much for coming back on the show.
Mindy Grossman: (00:55)
Thank you for having me back. Certainly different times.
Charles: (00:59)
Yes, very different. Just tell us where you are and who you're with at the moment.
Mindy Grossman: (1:07)
So, I am here up in my home in the Hudson Valley with the family. From nine months and up, and we're all doing what everyone else is doing. We're working from home, trying to make sure I'm connected with my whole WW international family globally as much as possible and also trying to manage life like we all are as well.
Charles: (1:42)
Obviously the world has changed so much even in the last three weeks. What does leadership look like to you today?
Mindy Grossman: (1:49)
I think leadership is leadership and where you really see the important tenants of leadership is when you're in the most difficult situations, not when you're necessarily in the best situations. And I think the acute need for transparency, authenticity, inspiration, being calm and resolute, and being able to practice offense versus defense in a difficult time and certainly having extreme clarity and consistency of message with both your internal constituencies as well as your external constituencies.
And you know, I do believe that the organizations who have built a culture based on all of those things are the ones that have the opportunity to truly not just manage, but will come out of this as a better organization and team. I have to say the team at WW has beyond exceeded, and I had pretty high expectations, but what they've been able to do both in their connectivity, the way they're working together, and how they're innovating to create solutions, how their first priority has been the safety and security of our employees and our members and our partners and how we've been working together as one has truly been spectacular.
Charles: (3:43)
And that wouldn't be possible if the company hadn't instilled those values beforehand. You can't just turn those on in moment of crisis if they don't already exist.
Mindy Grossman: (3:52)
Totally. And it just speaks again to the critical importance of culture and how you decide to hire for culture, how the clarity and consistency of the conversation about what that really means has been very important. And when we launched our impact manifesto, it seems forever ago, but it was February 2018. Nobody would have imagined how the world would change. But we have lived and breathed that manifesto.
Not just our purpose, which is we inspire healthy habits for real life people, communities, families, a world for everyone. But included in that is the tenants of how we work together as a team, how we treat our members, the tenants that we live by. And just as recently as this February, we had a town hall where we relived that launch and made sure that everyone, because we've hired a lot of new people since then, that everybody understood how important it was for us to live our purpose and the way we need to work together and it could not have been more timely, and I think reinforcing what those values are and what your culture are on an ongoing basis are so important.
Charles: (5:34)
Are you referring to your purpose as a group overtly these days? Have you found that it becomes a more deliberate reference or is it implicit based on the fact that you've now lived with it for awhile?
Mindy Grossman: (5:44)
You know, I think it's both. Because at any given point, people are coming into it for the first time. So, I think it's a message of both. I do feel that where we've evolved over that time and things that have changed is in that first manifesto, it was to become something and now it's to be something because we are and we've built the wellness ecosystem and we've redefined who we are as a brand and as a business and as a culture. So nuances change, but the core values need to remain the same.
Charles: (6:30)
As you said, leadership has never been more important. What are you finding you are relying on in terms of your own leadership priorities, your own leadership skills?
Mindy Grossman: (6:40)
You know, Charles, I actually feel that on one hand, although I've had crazy moments in my career, I feel I've actually gained much from having to lead through crisis before. I took my last company public in August 2008. It's my first time as a public company CEO. I had a brand new board and the world literally crumbled.
And I think that my experience throughout my career, the fact that, and you know this more than anyone, working with so many CEOs and executives, having an executive coach and really understanding the tenants of leadership and my own capabilities and assets. I think that's what enabled me to not only get through the crisis but have the company thrive in a way that nobody ever expected. So taking so many of the learnings and now applying them today and this idea of being proactive versus reactive, calm and resolute, being the ultimate communicator.
You basically become the chief crisis officer as well as the chief communication officer. And the reality is that you have to really pay attention to how people are feeling. Everyone is nervous about themselves and their families and really being able to give people a message that, A, here's what we're doing, here's what we need you to do, here's what we need you to focus on: Yourself first, your family, your friends, and then certainly the key things in the business.
That they know that right now it's not perfection. It's progress every day around what we need to do. That their leadership cares about them as individuals and we care about our members. And that need for clarity and communication becomes so important, but also the need to be agile, to be respectful to how you work together, and to apply the greatest innovation that you can.
And a great example of that for us is we identified and we acted earlier than a lot of other, whether it's retail, et cetera, and we just said we're going to put the safety and security of our employees and our members first. And we made a decision to pause our in person workshops. But while we were making that decision, we said what can we do? And we took work streams of incredibly talented people and applied them to that.
So, we announced that we were pausing our workshops on a Sunday. We trained 16,000 coaches and guides in every country that we do business in from Monday to Wednesday. We had technology integrated. We had content and marketing to advise all our members that we were going to support them. And by that Thursday we had the global launch of virtual workshops for every member that we have.
And it was one of the most powerful leadership moments I've certainly been proud to be part of. Because not only were we motivating our teams and we were using our greatest assets, we were leveraging innovation and technology. We moved quicker than I think we've ever had before. And that's a learning for the future. But the satisfaction, the happiness, and how our members feel, and I've had the opportunity to be in many of those virtual workshops and people needed this now more than ever, the ability to have their tribe, the ability to come together. And so we've had incredible engagement and certainly it's positive from a business perspective, but for all of us it's incredibly positive from a human perspective.
Charles: (11:42)
When you're leading in a crisis, one of the things that I think we all have experienced is that the things that you do today often seem like an overreaction and by tomorrow they seem like they were an under estimation of how bad things were going to be. And when you've lived through a crisis before, as you were describing in 2008, you live through that reality, don't you? You learn that you have to move faster than you can imagine because those things are going to get away from you if you don't. Do you think that having gone through other crises, in particular 2008, that you were able to see further faster as a result? Were you able to project into the future about how bad this could get quicker?
Mindy Grossman: (12:23)
I would phrase it a little differently. I am a resilient optimist. So yes, you have to model out all different scenarios. I have a fiscal responsibility. We're a public company. I have a board who I have kept updated in real time. So, you have to model out scenarios and make decisions in real time. We went from watching how this was going daily to watching how it's been going every five minutes because you don't know what's going to happen.
But if you do the planning of all the different scenarios, you as a team and as a leader can decide when you have to push what mechanisms possible and whether that's business continuity scenarios, the financial scenarios, people scenarios, you have to do that. But again, you have to decide what lens you're looking through. And the lens certainly that we're looking through is the safety security of our employees, our members, and how can we affect the greatest level of business continuity that we can with the least effect on people.
Charles: (14:00)
From a practical standpoint, how are you communicating and how often? What groups are you connecting with so that people feel like they are still part of something?
Mindy Grossman: (14:08)
Yes. So I mentioned before, I think communication and connectivity are the most critical things in a scenario like this. I think everyone knows what it's like to live on Zoom, but we also use Facebook Workplace. We were one of the original adopters, we're a case study for them. And that's the ability for me to communicate with 18,000 people around the world at any given time. So, we've used that, as has my whole executive team, to constantly communicate updates.
We have started virtual town halls in every market around the world for the broadest audience. And then we've been doing an entire series of executive committee calls with the team. Our board calls with pre-reads the night before, our global GM calls. The other day, we're on with 10 different countries at the same time and some people are waking up really early, some people are staying up really late.
But we've committed to be together. And an important part of that is knowing what's happening in every market and learning. One of the things about what's happening right now is different markets are at different parts of the curve. So for example, when we decided to pause our workshops, certain markets weren't in the same situation as others. But we made that decision because we knew that if we didn't pause, we could be compromising the health and safety of some of our members and some of our employees.
So, we made the decision, but we made it with making sure everyone understood why we were making the decision. And I think the powerful thing to me has been getting notes from some of the senior leaders saying, "We don't know if we necessarily agreed with you then, but thank you for the stoic leadership and making a decision."
Charles: (16:31)
Yeah, so important. You're essentially providing a federal response, aren't you? You're unifying the entire company across a set of standards. That's so effective.
Mindy Grossman: (16:40)
I think the other thing is really clarifying work streams and what's important. Obviously we came into the year 2020 with a list of strategies and priorities and clearly you have to reprioritize and really focus on those things that are going to be most critical. So, that's been another important element of what we've been doing.
And then I'd say lastly, how are you communicating with your external constituencies? And by that I mean partners, other CEOs, taking advantage of different conversations so you can take inspiration and learnings and ideas from others. So, I think for me a big part is having ... I've always said curiosity is a phenomenal asset, but taking advantage of as much information, content, ideas so you can apply them where applicable.
Charles: (17:51)
Where do you find innovation is coming from? Because obviously innovation is normally driven by people being together. How are you seeing innovation show up in the workplace at the moment?
Mindy Grossman: (18:02)
I think you can be as innovative virtually as you can physically. And we're seeing it. We're seeing it every day. Every one of our offices around the world has been closed and our current plan is for that to remain so till April 30th. Obviously we're managing that day to day. So, it really has actually, I think, forced people to be that much more connected and innovate. And so the combination of speed and ingenuity, creativity and connectivity have really, I think, risen more than ever before. And it sounds oxymoronic but it's really happening.
Charles: (18:52)
How are you prioritizing your time?
Mindy Grossman: (18:57)
It's actually been a good thing to have my family here. I have a three year old granddaughter and a nine month old and my daughter and my son in law. So, it's actually forced me a little bit more to take a break. I can have lunch with them during the week. We've committed to family time over the weekend, and look, right now everybody's on 24 hours a day because something can happen within that timeframe.
The other thing, and we have said this to all our team members, allow yourself to have life happen. And if there's a child crying in the background, if there's a dog barking, if there's chaos, that is life right now and we can't hide it. And there's no reason to. To be as transparent as possible to take the time when you need to.
We have so many employees whose children are home. They're being homeschooled, they have family and parents and other issues. We have to have ultimate flexibility to be able to manage itself. And I know for me, I've made a point of people being able to see the chaos in my life and you've got to be able to manage through it. We've sent a lot of notes out, reminding people to lease take care of themselves. Take some of the time over the weekend. Because we know how people are working. But they're not going to be able to be as effective for themselves and their family if they don't try, as they might, to take care of themselves.
Charles: (20:55)
Yeah. So important isn't it? It's such a challenge. Somebody said to me the other day, a crisis is danger plus opportunity. You have said to me in the past, never let a crisis go to waste.
Mindy Grossman: (21:07)
Exactly.
Charles: (21:08)
What are the good things that are coming out of this?
Mindy Grossman: (21:13)
I think it's how people come together, become unified, and work together to create solutions. I think you really see that in a situation. And look, we're looking at world leaders right now, we're looking at business leaders, and to me it's very obvious who are those leaders that are thinking of all aspects, not necessarily themselves, how they're coming together to create solutions, how they're trying to focus on the positive versus the negative, how they're being innovative, and how they're being human. How they are being human. And I think that's a really important element that's playing out right now.
Charles: (22:08)
And do you think people are more aware of the importance of that instinctively?
Mindy Grossman: (22:13)
Oh, I do. I do. Definitely. We're all watching the news and whether it's CNBC, Bloomberg, 24 hours a day right now, pretty much. And all you have to do is monitor commentary and you can see what leaders are rising to the top.
Charles: (22:33)
Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. What do you think might be different about the way we do business going forward? Obviously very early days and impossible to predict, but I'm just interested in what your sense is of what you think might be different.
Mindy Grossman: (22:44)
Yeah. Someone said to me, "When do you think we're going to get back to normal?" And I said, "Never." I said, "There will become a new normal." I think we're all learning a lot. We're learning a lot around flexibility, about how we work together. I know on our end, we had a long conversation the other day about how we think about being even that much more nimble and agile and how do we move quickly and how do we really empower individuals and teams? How do we lead even more effectively by really entrusting people to accomplish what they need to accomplish and let them move more quickly? I think we're going to see that definitively. I think that's going to be a big change.
Charles: (23:46)
And last question for you. What are you learning about yourself?
Mindy Grossman: (23:53)
I've always felt that I was in resilient optimist. Let me put it that way. And I'm learning that I'm now that much more than ever. And I've always felt a great responsibility, as well as the opportunity, to lead, which I love. So, I always feel you can continue to learn every day and you go through something, and I mentioned before, I think what I am learning in of even my own leadership, again, if you have the right people around you just empower them to move. My job isn't to question, it's to be clear about what our objectives are and what we have to do. Make sure the right people have the right roles and let people lead. And when you have great people, that can happen.
Charles: (24:59)
Yeah. Really well said. I couldn't put it better myself. Mindy, thank you so much for joining me today. Stay well, stay safe.
Mindy Grossman: (25:05)
Thank you.
Charles: (25:05)
And I look forward to being able to get back together sooner rather than later.
Mindy Grossman: (25:09)
Yeah, I do as well and love to family.
Charles: (25:13)
Thank you. Take care.
Mindy Grossman: (25:14)
Thank you.
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