Simon Cook of Cannes Lions
How have you been changed by the last two years?
"FEARLESS CREATIVE LEADERSHIP" PODCAST - TRANSCRIPT
Episode 360: Simon Cook
Here’s a question. How have you been changed by the last two years??
I’m Charles Day. I work with creative and innovative companies. I coach their leaders to help them succeed where leadership has its greatest impact. The intersection of strategy and humanity.
This week’s guest is Simon Cook, the CEO of Cannes Lions.
Cannes is an institution. One built on in-person connections. Like many organizations dependent on human contact, it has struggled in the face of a two year long, global pandemic.
“I think during the pandemic, let's be honest, at some stages, we were brought to our knees, and that's very exposing. People like to assume that we take a leadership position, and I think we should, more and more, because of the very privileged platform that we have. But also, because of… because we were brought to our knees in some respects, it has made us more humble, and that's something that I would like to retain.”
Organizations reflect their leaders. Style. Sensibilities. Ethics. Values. Priorities and Intention. All of these come from or are influenced by the person with the authority to say yes or no.
The Cannes Lions Festival has built a reputation for many things over the years. At its best, it shines a very bright light on the power of creativity to drive both business and change. And it acts as a shaper and predictor of what comes next. It has enormous influence.
Amidst all that, one word no one has ever used to describe Cannes is humble.
Creativity is fueled by confidence. The willingness to boldly go where no one has gone before.
But is is shaped and guided by humility. The recognition that creativity for creativity sake is not only wasteful, it is irresponsible. The understanding that when you have enormous impact, how you use that impact has wide and far reaching implications.
Until 2020 showed up on our doorstep, confidence was not a scarce resource.
But the flood of humility that has arrived in the last two years gives hope that the power of creativity can now be brought to bear in ways that are filled more with hope than hubris.
If the Cannes Lion Festival does indeed reflect its leader, its role in guiding and shaping the future will become even more valuable.
Here’s Simon Cook.
Charles: (02:45)
Simon, welcome back to Fearless. Thanks so much for coming back on the show for the third time.
Simon Cook: (02:49)
The hat trick. Thanks for having me, Charles. Always a pleasure.
Charles: (02:52)
I think you and Nils might be the only three time repeats. I'll have to check.
Simon Cook: (02:57)
Oh, I'm going to chase him for that title.
Charles: (03:01)
How's the week?
Simon Cook: (03:03)
Fantastic. It's been great. It's been a long time coming, but it's been a real pleasure to have everyone back, and also to see the excitement and joy on their faces. The relief, as well, for them being back, too.
Charles: (03:17)
A lot of emotion, this week.
Simon Cook: (03:19)
I think it's been a really emotional week, yeah. For many reasons. I think partly because of the road we've all been on to get here. It's been nearly three years since we were on the Croisette. And maybe that's about the event itself, maybe not, but I think it's about the road back to some form of normality. An evolved normality, all the same. But certainly being together again, people are enjoying very much.
Charles: (03:44)
Yeah, I mean, it really is a reference point in the year, isn't it? As an event. For lots of reasons, both, I think, emotionally and intellectually. And I'm struck by the fact that while COVID has made it difficult for any of us to place, was it a year ago, or two years ago?
Simon Cook: (03:57)
Yeah.
Charles: (03:58)
For some reason, Cannes is easy to remember that it's been three years. How has it changed so far in the five days that you've been around it? What's different this week?
Simon Cook: (04:08)
The being together thing. The real sense of belonging. And you always get that every year at Cannes, but people are certainly here to celebrate the good work and to hopefully see some inspiring content. But spending a lot of time together, and just really relishing the opportunity to be together, whether that be people you only ever see at Cannes, and we all have those people in our lives, or connecting with your team in a completely different way, because they've only been used to doing that on Zoom. But also just coming together, and I think having that level of recognition, again, not just for the work from the last year, but really for what they've been through for the whole period since this all kicked off.
Charles: (04:52)
What's the road been like for you, getting to this point over the last few months, when you knew it was going to... when did you know this was going to happen in person? When did you make that decision?
Simon Cook: (05:00)
We knew for sure, I think, in April. And obviously, things could have still gotten in the way. But in my gut, in my belly, that's when I felt that this was going to go ahead. And, you know, just a few weeks ago, we didn't really know how big this thing was going to be, and whether people would be able to come, for various reasons. So, the last few weeks has been really interesting, you know, seeing that level of engagement has been exciting. So the road has been exciting, I would say.
Charles: (05:28)
But it must have been frenetic, because normally, you're planning… I mean, you start planning it the next year, basically the week after the previous one has finished, right? And, I mean, I know from my own experience that content—
Simon Cook: (05:37)
Yeah.
Charles: (05:38)
Requests start going out in November and December, so, from April to now, you’ve put this thing together, fundamentally? I mean, obviously you must have done a little bit of planning, but all the big decisions have happened in the last two months?
Simon Cook: (05:50)
Earlier last year, we decided that we would build something small and beautiful that had the ability to morph and grow if we need it to. So, you know our content team, and I know you've worked with them well, they started with the fundamentals, but knowing that it would have to flex if needed, and it did. And we're so grateful for that.
Charles: (06:12)
You talked, the last time we talked, you talked about Cannes being a dance where we all know the steps and the rhythms of it. How's the dance different this week than the last time we were here?
Simon Cook: (06:21)
I think the dance... the dance that we all know and love has changed quite a bit, certainly from an internal perspective. We have many new people who don't know the dance, and that's the same, I guess, for a lot of businesses. Lots of new members of staff. So, although we are teaching the steps... We're getting deep into metaphor now, Charles. Bear with me. We all know the steps. It's also been a time of teaching a lot of new people the steps on the fly. Which is a different experience, but it's been a lot of fun, I have to say.
Charles: (06:54)
How do you navigate, because one of the great things about Cannes has been that's it's always provided this place, I've always thought, where the conversation shifted. You know, the thing, the insights, this was always a leading indicator. And if you were really… if you really understood the dance, you were able to sort of start to filter, almost in real time, as the week was going on, what are the themes, how is the direction of the industry changing, of society, of culture changing? You would always get that here first.
As the, in many ways, if not the authors of the future, at least the fore-tellers of the future, are you still holding on to parts of the past, or are you really trying to focus this thing going forward?
Simon Cook: (07:29)
I think I'm probably someone that focuses more on the future, but is conscious, and sensitive to things that have served us well for a really long time. And perhaps the deepest stuff, you know, values that you know are always going to serve you well. But like you, the thing I like about this week is, it gives you a glimpse into the future, which sounds a bit daft, really, doesn't it? But a lot of people think of Lions as a retrospective, whereas I really treat it as, no, no, no, this is where I get my booster, my injection.
Charles: (08:04)
Yeah.
Simon Cook: (08:04)
Which propels everyone forward, hopefully.
Charles: (08:07)
Yeah. I think that's true. And actually, I'd never heard it framed that way, but I think that's right. It is easy to get caught up in the past, because the awards, by definition, are a celebration of what's happened already. But, yes, I think the real value proposition is in reading between the lines and seeing what the themes are.
Simon Cook: (08:22)
And maybe that's what we'll see this week. People are definitely here to clap whilst looking backwards. But hopefully, they're looking forwards, as well, and feeling hopeful.
Charles: (08:31)
Well, and you've got two years worth of people who have been awarded stuff who have never been able to be recognized for that. So you've got to incorporate all of that into this, as well, right?
Simon Cook: (08:39)
Yes. We've had lovely moments throughout the week where we've recreated the show, and I've been there in my suit, on stage, at lunchtime taking photos with last year's winners. Which, when it was pitched, I have to say, I was like, "I don't know if I'm going to have time to do that," but it's been one of my highlights this week, I have to say.
Charles: (08:54)
Is that right?
Simon Cook: (08:55)
Yeah.
Charles: (08:56)
Yeah, it must be very rewarding for people, that the stuff they had done two years ago is actually still around and being remembered.
Simon Cook: (09:03)
Yeah.
Charles: (09:03)
I'm curious, just as a quick aside, because the industry moves so quickly, are there any companies that were awarded within the last two years that no longer exist? Have you had any of that?
Simon Cook: (09:11)
That's a great question. I wouldn't know off the top of my head, but I'm now going to look, for sure.
Charles: (09:16)
It wouldn't be surprising, right, if that was in fact the case.
Simon Cook: (09:19)
Yeah.
Charles: (09:21)
You talked, again, last time we spoke, about the fact that this is very much a community partnership. That you act very much in concert with the community. What's that been like over the last three, four months since you've started to put this thing together? What have you heard from the community that they wanted more from, more of?
Simon Cook: (09:39)
Yeah, I think, I think what they wanted was to turn up and recognize and see the thing, the points that they love about the festival. And so that's sometimes difficult to determine, because there are different things for everyone. So we're very conscious of not changing too much of the stuff that people seem to love and like. But also, the overriding feedback was, when we come, it has to feel different. It has to feel more meaningful, more purposeful, and we want to spend time together. So we very deliberately designed it so that there isn't lots of competing things going on. Stripped back content, hopefully better quality content, but also, proactively creating spaces and space for people to catch up, have meetings, on the business side, but also be together.
Charles: (10:29)
Have you felt it be different?
Simon Cook: (10:31)
Yeah, it does feel different. All the best bits feel the same, the difference is that really strong desire for people to want to connect. And we're seeing that across the entire city, usually with people beaming from ear to ear. (Laughs)
Charles: (10:48)
What have you seen or felt that you hope is sustainable, coming out of this year? I know that the year is still, the week is not yet over. You've still got, it's funny to be sitting here on Thursday and people are trying to get… find the stamina to get through to Saturday. But nevertheless, we both know that Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, a lot of stuff still is to come.
Simon Cook: (11:06)
Yeah.
Charles: (11:07)
What parts of the week that you've seen so far do you hope take through to… go through to next year, and perhaps in ways that you haven't seen in the past?
Simon Cook: (11:16)
I think people participating more. So, you know, perhaps traditionally, people have turned up to sit in an auditorium and take stuff in and be quite a passive audience member. Whereas this year, people are wanting to act. To be involved with something that lives beyond the festival. So things like our growth council that we've put in place, which is to hopefully drive progress across areas in our industry that really need it. And there is an open call for all of our attendees, all of our community, to get involved with that. And, hopefully, those things will continue throughout the year, but also, this becomes the check in point to really make ourselves accountable for those things. Let's be real.
Charles: (11:58)
And have you seen anything or felt anything that you think, ‘I hope that's just the reflection of what this year was inevitably was always going to be about',’ was, you know, an outpouring of emotion. Is, is there any part of this that you think, ‘Okay, understandable this year, let's hope we don't see that next year,’?
Simon Cook: (12:15)
My hope is that people in '23 come with the same sense of joy. Because obviously this year, people are joyful about being together, and also because of their shared love of creativity. It would be great if that continued to be a thing in '23. You know, to just remember that it is great, being together. We are here because there is a shared sense of belonging, and because we ultimately all believe that creativity has this wonderful power to create change that we all buy into.
Charles: (12:50)
You took this job when this was—
Simon Cook: (12:52)
Yes.
Charles: (12:53)
A physical, you know, moving, breathing thing. Almost immediately, it suddenly turned into a, everybody stay at home, stare at each other through screens, absolutely no physical contact. Your leadership has adapted enormously over the last three years, to your point. How is it different today? How are you different as a leader than you were three years ago?
Simon Cook: (13:14)
I think less scared. I think, if I'm really honest with myself, I probably didn't realize at the time, I was quite scared of being… of taking on this job, of being a leader in that way. As we've talked about before, the pandemic really encourages you, whether you like it or not, to reveal things about yourself that you probably weren't prepared to. So I think that extreme vulnerability that you have to adopt, if you hold onto it and you're honest with yourself every day about it, then that's probably the most significant change.
The minute you're willing to lead in that way, you know, that fear sort of starts to evaporate, really, because you are forced to just present your full self in most scenarios. And people, as we know, and have discussed many times, respond really well to that. Shock, horror. (Laughs)
Charles: (14:05)
Wow, a human being. Yes, who knew what that looks like?
Simon Cook: (14:07)
Wow, who knew?
Charles: (14:08)
You always come across as a very calm, reflective, very engaged, present person. Do you think the last three years have accentuated that, or do you think, to your point, it's just allowed you to actually express that and learn that that's actually really valuable?
Simon Cook: (14:22)
I think, and I'm sure a lot of people can relate to this, not just in leadership positions but more generally, that it makes you a lot more comfortable with yourself, when you're in an environment where you feel psychologically safe, to be able to be the truest version of yourself. And so, yes, I think… I think that has happened, yeah. It's been interesting… interesting to think back, actually, as this a journey that we've been on through leadership.
Charles: (14:53)
What's the most surprising thing?
Simon Cook: (14:57)
People's resilience. I've been so surprised, and really in awe of how resilient people are. Especially our own team here. You know, we've had cancellations, postponements, COVID, the war, which is just horrific. So, lots of barriers getting in the way, but providing that everyone is… has a common goal and respects the product and the customer, and in this case, I'm pleased to say that they do, there's just such a sense of togetherness along the journey, and wanting to do well, so that's been really pleasing to see. So I'm very proud of them.
Charles: (15:38)
Are you looking for a certain kind of person when you hire for Lions?
Simon Cook: (15:41)
Increasingly, people who can add something that we don't have. Increasingly diverse, because we've seen, even this week with our juries, which, you know, it's been very nice to hear from some of our jury presidents that the quality of conversations, the different kind of conversations that are being had, because we have more diverse juries in place, is probably having a direct output on the winners that you're seeing on the stage every day. And so if you apply that principle to business and to most businesses, that's what I'd be looking for. People that can bring something that we don't have, because it's going to make for a better business, ultimately.
But as a general rule, people who are emotionally intelligent. I like a diagonal thinker. That's always a bonus for me.
Charles: (16:33)
Organizations are always a reflection of their leaders. Somebody said to me the other day that Cannes feels more humble coming back. Is that something that you aspire to for it?
Simon Cook: (16:47)
I do. Yeah, I do. I think during the pandemic, let's be honest, at some stages, we were brought to our knees, and that's very exposing. People like to assume that we take a leadership position, and I think we should, more and more, because of the very privileged platform that we have. But also, because of… because we were brought to our knees in some respects, it has made us more humble, and that's something that I would like to retain. You know, there's nothing wrong, I think, with Lions having a more human persona. And for us to play a more active role in using that platform for things that perhaps we wouldn't have in the past.
Charles: (17:27)
Can you give me an example?
Simon Cook: (17:29)
I think like the progress councils that we've put in place this year. If we can find ways to harness the world's most creative and most brilliant minds, and if we do that once a year, even at our festival, then, you know, sky's the limit, potentially. Or at least I like to think so.
Charles: (17:48)
Humility is a difficult thing to express in an environment like this because it is so energized, isn't it? It is so full on. I was trying to go to sleep last night and was waiting for the music to stop at 3:00am.
Simon Cook: (17:59)
Me too, Charles. (Laughs)
Charles: (18:01)
Yeah, we should have knocked on each other's door. Against that backdrop, which is obviously always going to be part and parcel of what makes this the draw and the leer it is, and I think makes it interesting and dynamic for younger members of the community, shall we say. How do you juxtapose those two things? How do you find heart, humility, humanity, as a through line in the middle of something that has to be so energized, if that makes sense?
Simon Cook: (18:28)
Yeah, that's a great question. I'd like to think I've seen that this week. You know, my limited experience outside of the Palais (laughs). I'll get out eventually. And the people that I've encountered, there does seem to be a sense of fun. Like, let's lean into that. People are also here to have fun and have a good time, and enjoy being together. Every interaction that I've had has been tinged with kindness, and that's been the overriding thing. People have... there's no... lots of the, perhaps, ego that you would have seen in some pockets of Cannes over the past few years, it does feel like it's been, certainly from my experience, put to one side. And people are just being very kind. And maybe that's the through line, and the one that we hope would stay.
Charles: (19:14)
And kind to you?
Simon Cook: (19:15)
Absolutely. So supportive. Probably the first year where people have asked me how I am so much. Probably, not just because it's quite a full on event to organization, but because of the past three years, and because people realize that it's been a bit of a rollercoaster to get to this point.
Charles: (19:35)
I think that is such an important point, actually. I mean, leadership is incredibly lonely. But I do think, actually, now that you say that, that one of the pivots has been people worrying more about the people that they work for in a way they never used to. I think that's very insightful, actually. It must make you feel different, as a result, when people suddenly start worrying about how you are, just on a human basis.
Simon Cook: (19:54)
It's quite disarming, I have to say. You know, people who we've seen coming to the festival and know very well coming up to you and saying, "But how are you?" And then even your team around you being like, "Sir, are you all right? Are you all right? Are you feeling okay today?" Yeah, I mean, it's heartwarming, and as I said, kind. But could also make you burst into tears every five minutes, Charles, especially after the last three years we've had. So, I don't know how productive it is.
Charles: (20:21)
Well, especially after four days with no sleep, right?
Simon Cook: (20:23)
Exactly.
Charles: (20:23)
By tomorrow, good luck tomorrow.
Simon Cook: (20:25)
When the adrenaline stops, we'll see what happens. You’ll find me crumpled on the floor at the gala, probably.
Charles: (20:30)
As you look back over the last three years and the massive evolution and transition you've gone through personally, and the organization has gone through, do you have any regrets?
Simon Cook: (20:39)
I don't believe in regrets. I don't know if that's a terrible thing to say, but it's looking backwards, and I'd like to look forwards.
Charles: (20:46)
Anything you've learned that you want to make sure you don't repeat?
Simon Cook: (20:51)
Yeah, I think, yeah, we learn every day, but again, I like to see it as a positive thing. You know, it's… I think one learning is that around the devil that is imposter syndrome. I'm sure you speak to people about this on the daily. So maybe one regret was to not let that become too much of a thing in my head in the early stages of taking on this role. Because, I mean, as you know, imposter syndrome isn't real, really. It just means that you're learning, you're doing something you haven't done before. And so, if you can harness that in the right way, it becomes a bit of a superpower.
Charles: (21:33)
Are you comfortable in this role now?
Simon Cook: (21:35)
I am.
Charles: (21:36)
Do you like it?
Simon Cook: (21:37)
I love it. It's great. It's such a privileged position to be in. And I think this week has really brought that home. It's the first time in three years where we've been able to come together and see our community, like, really see them coming together from all over the world. And seeing that shared sense of heart and belonging for what we do, but creativity, mainly, has been such a booster for me, in many ways.
Charles: (22:06)
And if you roll the clock forward a year, what do you want to be true next year?
Simon Cook: (22:13)
The thing I'd like to be true, and we've already talked about it, is that people continue to remember what this is all about. So often we are distracted by the quirks of business, external factors, whatever pressures are being put upon us by the world and our industry. But remembering why you came here in the first place. Why you continue to come here. Sometimes that gets a bit muddy. And I think holding onto that, if we can all hold onto that, then it will make for a better experience. Not just here, but throughout the year, as well.
Charles: (22:51)
And what are you afraid of?
Simon Cook: (22:54)
What am I afraid of? I think, and it's probably not a healthy thing. I'm afraid of letting people down. Just because it has been over the last couple of years that I've realized what opportunity we have as a platform. And so, not using that in the correct way to really help the community as much as we possibly can, that would feel like letting people down a bit. So I take that responsibility very seriously.
Charles: (23:23)
I think, just a final observation, what I find interesting is when, if you talk to leaders over a period of time and you ask them consistent questions, whether they come back at you with fairly consistent answers or not. I've talked to you three times, I've asked you that question three times, you've given me the same answer three times.
Simon Cook: (23:37)
Have I really?
Charles: (23:38)
Which is really, yes, I think, is to your credit.
Simon Cook: (23:40)
Wow. Okay.
Charles: (23:41)
Says a lot. Thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks for lending me in your office where the sun, I think, is trying to come out through the second day of rain I've experienced at Cannes, I think in 20 years. So—
Simon Cook: (23:51)
Yeah, it's very rare.
Charles: (23:52)
It's very rare.
Simon Cook: (23:53)
It's very rare. It does look like the sun's coming out. Wonderful news.
Charles: (23:55)
It does look like it's trying. Congratulations on, A, getting through the last three years, and B, being around to be able to put this back on. It's such an important and invaluable week for so many of us, and so, I thank you, and hope you're… I hope that you're able to feel the love.
Simon Cook: (24:11)
Thanks very much, Charles. Always a pleasure. Thanks for being here, as well.
Charles: (24:14)
Absolutely, my pleasure.
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