Brad Simms of GALE Partners
How do you say goodbye?
"FEARLESS CREATIVE LEADERSHIP" PODCAST - TRANSCRIPT
Episode 379: Brad Simms
Here’s a question. How do you say goodbye?
I’m Charles Day. I work with creative and innovative companies. I’m asked to coach their leaders and their leadership teams. To help them succeed where leadership has its greatest impact. The intersection of strategy and humanity.
This week’s guest is Brad Simms. He’s the President and CEO of GALE Partners. They describe themselves as strategic storytellers.
GALE was founded in 2014 with seven people in Canada. Today, the agency is 734 people across 11 offices. It was this year named #5 in the Ad Age A List, and as Adweek’s Breakthrough Media Agency of the Year.
GALE has above average talent retention rates. But over the course of nine years, something like 1,300 people have spent time at the agency. Put another way, almost 600 people have left the company since it started.
“You know, folks aren't going to work at GALE for the rest of their lives. It is part of their journey, and I want to make sure that not only the entrance into GALE is unbelievable, but I believe that exits are more important than entrances. And so is that exit as fulfilling as that entrance? And are we as respectful and grateful for their time here?”
The creative industries are a case study in dynamic organizations. Change is not just inevitable but essential. It is both the fuel and the consequence of creative thinking and innovation.
In that environment, people will come and others will leave. And that is as it should be, both for personal growth and for the growth of the business.
There are two variables in that equation. When they leave, and how.
The question of when is for another day.
The question of how is as important. And often, significantly more so.
For many years, the view was that four or five jobs in a thirty-five year career represented a reasonable timeline. Time to learn, time to influence and to impact. A win-win.
Back then, the idea that you would return to a company that you had worked for before was limited only to those few who realized that leaving had been a mistake, and raced back to the safety of the known. Often within days.
Today, creating the conditions in which employees can boomerang is a practice so common that it has an actual name. And companies with a proven ability to rehire former employees gain distinctive competitive advantages. Institutional knowledge, cultural fit, team casting, and speed of impact being just four.
Today, when someone leaves, the question of whether you, as the leader, are respectful and grateful for the time they spent at your company, will have more impact on whether they want to come back than anything that you do while they are there.
And more to do with who else might want to join you in the first place.
Here’s Brad Simms.
Charles (03:24):
Brad, welcome to Fearless. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Brad Simms (03:28):
Thanks a lot, Charles. I'm looking forward to it.
Charles (03:30):
When did creativity first show up in your life? When were you first conscious of creativity being a thing?
Brad Simms (03:36):
Yeah, I mean, it's a really interesting question. Because I think that sometimes we take the word creativity and we make it a synonym for creative activities. And I think, you know, for me, creativity has always been a part of who I am because I think, even growing up playing sports, spending time in school, for me, I've always been really fascinated by humans, relationships with humans, problem solving. And kind of at the core of that is enabling human potential. And for me, I think that's one of the most interesting creative endeavors. Because the thing about humans is, although we're all very similar, we're all 100% unique. And I've been fascinated pretty much my entire life with that journey of different people, different paths, and different motivations and different outcomes. And I think understanding that and help enabling that is kind of... at the core that that is creativity.
Charles (04:40):
I think it's tragic, actually, how much sort of institutions try and drive the sense of individual creativity out of us. I was fortunate enough to spend a lot of time for a while with Sir Ken Robinson, who gave an extraordinary TED Talk on how the education system drives creativity out of people. And you see this so often. You talk to people about whether they're creative or not and most people, I think, instinctively default to, "No, I'm not." And that just seems a massive waste of human potential.
Brad Simms (05:07):
It does. And I think, you know, one of the things that is also really interesting is, sometimes the education system or jobs, or even, frankly, job descriptions as an idea, tries to create very firm boundaries around what we do, who we are, and the contributions we make. And I like to view humans more as uneven shaped activities. You know, folks have, different interests, different passions, they want to grow in different ways. And I think when you help explore and grow that, I think that's really fulfilling. And so I think a lot of what we do to get to scale, frankly, is to create templates. Because we're all about scale, right? Scale getting orders, getting fast food. Scale at the education system. Scale in jobs. Scale... But I think there's so much more to it than that and I think that's frankly what drives a lot of my fascination in what I do.
Charles (06:07):
How did you express yourself growing up?
Brad Simms (06:11):
Yeah, I mean, if you talked to my parents, they would say… they would never have realized or could envision kind of, I suppose, the role I have right now. You know, until even, you know... I grew up in Canada. Until even grade 10 or 11, I didn't even know if I was going to go to university. I just didn't have that path. I knew I wanted to do things. I mean, when I was in grade five, my parents got called in and the principal wanted to hold me back because I just wasn't focused. And my parents were like, "No, no, no. Wrong reasons. You’ve got to keep him going. Just, like, that's not the right thing to do."
And that gets back a little bit to the systems, right? And my parents could see through that. And so, when I was coming out of grade 10 and 11, I didn't... I had no idea where I was going to go and I was talking to a friend that was a few years older and he's like, "You’ve got to come to university. It's like this field of learning." I'm like, "I don't know if I want it." He's like, "No, no, no. It's completely unstructured." I'm like, "Okay. Let's try that."
And, frankly, it wasn't probably until the third year of university where I really understood the passion for learning. I understood kind of the dynamics that fired me up. I took first year psychology in the second semester of my third year, because it was a mandatory for my commerce degree. But in my first year, I'm like, "I don't want to take that." And I actually think that was such an important shift for me as a human, but also as a professional, because when I took first year psychology in third year, I just had such a broader appreciation of what I was learning. But I was fascinated by it, because I think I had matured to a spot where, you know, the philosophies and the things we were learning just landed with me in a different way.
And it just fired me up about organizations and growth and humans and leadership in a way in which, frankly, I wouldn't have taken from it in the first year of university. So it's probably one of the best accidental decisions I've ever made.
Charles (08:06):
Did you always want to lead? Did that show up really early on for you, the desire to lead?
Brad Simms (08:11):
I think so. I think I would redefine it. I think the desire to believe in people, frankly sometimes more than they believe in themselves, to help enable their potential, has always been at the core. And I think we sometimes defacto call that leading. But I think that has always been something I've been really interested in from very early, early days.
Charles (08:38):
What was it that made you start your own business? What were the instincts that drove that?
Brad Simms (08:44):
It was actually an experiment. And the experiment was really simple. I had worked in the ad space and in the tech space for a little while and I had this idea which was a lot of organizations are focused on growth. They want to grow. They grow quarter to quarter. They grow year to year. In the agency space, sometimes we are overly focused on awards and recognition of our agency. And I had this idea that that was actually the outcome of what made an organization great, not the input. So I had this idea which was, if we focused on great people, hiring, mentoring, developing them, found great clients, and had a really powerful values based culture, and we just focused on that, could we actually create as an outcome of that an unbelievable organization that had the awards and the recognitions and the growth, but not focus on that, not talk about it?
And so, it was almost an experiment, which is, if every day we didn't wake up and think about, "What's our next client? What's our revenue? What's our growth? What's our recognition?" But we woke up and said, "What are we doing for our people? How are we collaborating with our clients, and are we doing it in a common value based system?" And we just focused on that. Could we achieve what everyone wanted by actually not focusing on it? And that was the experiment, that kind of nudged me to start GALE.
Charles (10:11):
And have you had to adapt that at any point? Does that work at 700 people as well as it did at seven people?
Brad Simms (10:18):
I would say it works at 700 people as well as seven people. I would say in the early days of the pandemic, it was tough. And I think it was tough for two fold. One is as humans, we were unsure of what's going on. I mean, I remember the very first time my CFO called me and said, "There's a shelter in place ordinance in the city of San Francisco." I was like, "What does that mean? A shelter, like, what?" I had to Google it. I'm like, "What are we supposed to do with this? What is this rule?"
And so, I think the first six to eight months of the pandemic, I think, challenged it because part of the model was really based in being in person. It was about that connection. It was about that interaction. It was about the space in which we worked. It was about in the consistency of the culture and the interaction styles across our offices. And so, I would say it scales to 700, no problem. I would say it was bumpy as we as humans tried to figure out a new style of, frankly, engaging with other humans not in person. That definitely challenged it, I think. I think we figured it out, but it wasn't without some speed bumps.
Charles (11:30):
How did your leadership adapt and evolve as a result of COVID? How are you different?
Brad Simms (11:36):
I think coming out of COVID, I think I'm probably a more empathetic leader. I think COVID exposed in all of us frankly, just, like, a fear. People were scared. And it wasn't like, one person was scared or, you know, you had.… Like, as a civilization…. Like, we had no idea. I remember talking to my dad in early March. I was in the kitchen in my brother's place in Toronto, and he was like, "I'm going to a conference." And I'm like, "You're not going anywhere. What are you talking about?”
So I think in seeing that, and one of the things that coming out of that as a leader, is just to be more, not necessarily aware, but basically more in tune with some of the ramifications of the pandemic. But I also think some of the.... yeah, just some of the cues that I think we have when we interact with folks that maybe I wasn't as tuned into beforehand that I'm definitely tuned into now. Stress, mental health, balance. We always talked about work/life balance, but I think it's at a different level now. You know, when you're working in that way, you develop new ways in which you sense when folks are struggling, either with work or just with workload or whatever. I think you just become a more dialed in leader, and I think that's definitely something that's changed in the last handful of years for me.
Charles (13:05):
And as a company, where are you now in terms of in-the-office versus remote? What have you decided works for you guys?
Brad Simms (13:12):
So we're three days in the office, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. We're flexible on the Monday and Friday, and on the Monday, we get about 25% of our folks in. And on a Friday, maybe about 8%. You know, I think one of the things that was at the core of our idea, which was bringing folks together with shared values to do transformational work, I think as an agency in what we do, there is a component of being in person. And I think that some leaders talk about efficiencies. Like, “I'm looking at emails,” or, “I'm looking at this,” or, “At this bank, we need people to be more efficient.”
And there's a component of it to that, I guess, but it's not really the component that I'm focused on. I think it's about innovation. It's about charting a path forward for our clients that isn't obvious. And I think that happens so much more organically when you can just grab someone for five minutes, and you don't need to hit their calendar to see their calendar that you can get 10 minutes in two days on a Zoom and a dot, dot, dot, because you have an idea right then. And you just need to walk over to someone's desk, and they happen to be eating lunch, but you can bounce something off them.
So, for us, our three days in the office is driven by ensuring we continue to bring that spark. But the second thing I would say is we also know as an agency, as I mentioned, that's really passionate about growing humans, that we can accelerate your career and your career development better in some in person component as opposed to completely remote. And the data proves it. I mean, we can look at promotions against our competency matrix during the pandemic and it slowed down just simply because it's difficult, when you enter a new job or a new role or a new career, to develop the skills in a completely remote environment, in a remote way as you can in person. So, for us, it's three days a week in the office right now.
Charles (15:11):
Have you found, is there any kind of value proposition to the two days the people are spending at home from your standpoint? Or is that simply, "I wish they'd come in five, but I can't convince them to, so this is the best we can do?"
Brad Simms (15:23):
You know, I think this goes back to your question about how I'm a different leader post pandemic. Pre-pandemic, I was ruthless about in-office. Like, ruthless. I would say GALE is an in-office culture. And sure, if your washing machine breaks, you’ve got to take your dog to the vet or whatever, absolutely. We treated folks like adults and all that. But I was like, in-office.
I think you get the best out of folks in that endeavor to innovate and that endeavor to disrupt, when folks are recharged and they can bring a full energy and a full focus. And I think that's one of the things that the pandemic, frankly, taught us, is that, you know, you can be efficient working remote for a couple days a week. In fact, for some jobs, you can be efficient 100% of the time working remote. But I think it also, for some folks, recharges their batteries. It recharges their passion and their curiosity and allows them to bring an increased energy, and frankly, an increased edge - edge in a good way - to their interactions.
And so, for me, I think it's one of those balances that, you know, I want to get both sides. I want folks to feel like they have that flexibility, like they have the.… And they do have the ability to make that decision. If they wanna come in five days a week, come in five days a week. But I want when they get on the field or in the office or whatever analogy we want to use, I want them to come ready to really bring everything to that time. And so that balance I think works for us.
Charles (16:48):
I've never asked this question, so I'm curious to see what your answer is, but do you see yourself differently through a leadership lens as a result of the pandemic? I mean, do you feel differently about yourself? Do you like the sensitivity of being more empathetic? How do you feel about that?
Brad Simms (17:03):
I do. I think you develop deeper and more authentic connections with folks when you engage with them in different ways. As I said, I've always been inspired to believe in someone more than they believe in themselves, believe in their potential and help them get there. I just have more levers to connect with folks now—
Charles (17:25):
Mm.
Brad Simms (17:26):
—and I would also say, potentially, if I think about it, maybe I'm a little bit more… laid back is probably the wrong word, but just a little bit more willing to take some time to let things develop, to let it come to fruition now. You know, balancing kind of a slightly different approach. So I do view myself a little bit differently post pandemic. And, I think, when you come out of something like that, you know, folks come out in different ways, right? They have different priorities. We definitely see it as marketers. Different priorities. They focus on different things.
But I think when you've all gone through something like that, I think you relate differently to folks afterwards. It's like, sometimes you talk about how teams go through moments together. And then on the other side of that, they have a strength and a connection that they didn't have before. Well, as humans, we did that. As humans, we did that. And I think we connect differently now.
Charles (18:29):
You've mentioned a couple of times the importance of the seven values that the company was built on. A lot of companies talk about their values. In my experience, very few of them actually deliver actionable values. They put them on the wall or they stick them on the website and talk about them, and then you don't see any application of those in terms of people's behavior or accountability. It feels like you think yours are different. What are they, and are they different? How are they actionable?
Brad Simms (18:52):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is interesting because when we started the agency, we had the values before we had a name, frankly before we had the agency. When I started the agency with the founders, the thing that was most important to me was that we were aligned on the values, because I believed it was going to be the secret sauce moving forward. And we spent weeks getting aligned on the values to ensure that we were committed to it.
But more important to that, to your point, is you have to have a way in which you live the values. You don't just nod at them on a PowerPoint slide or on the walls as you go through. And so, we spent just as much time talking about how we live those values and, frankly, how we embed them in everything we do. So, when we think about that, it starts right when we're talking to folks about joining GALE. They get a core values interview. An interview specifically focused on their alignment and their... how they relate to those values. And when you join, we have goals and objectives that we set at GALE. We set them every year. They're set across the organization. Those goals and objectives are set against our values.
Every single role at GALE has a competency matrix, something we built in early days, which basically says, whether you're in the story discipline or you're in the PR discipline or you're in the technology discipline, at every level, you know what you need to do in order to get promoted. So it's very merit based, not subjective. You can set your values against it. Those are in our values and articulated in our values. We do recognitions based in our values. Our feedback is in values. So the values are really the fabric across everything. They're the consistent thing that is everywhere. If you don't, you don't live the values in a way like that, then frankly, you can just easily change them. And a thing I think's really, really, really been interesting about our values is we haven't changed them.
Those values, you know, the ‘No silos,’ the ‘Passion is not optional,’ ‘Everyone matters,’ the ‘Being creative,’ ‘Friends collaborating,’ you know, those have stood the test of time. And I think, you know, if you look at the time that GALE has been around, as a culture, we've gone through some pretty epic shifts, some pretty epic moves around getting clear on what has always been right, but really putting it at the front of conversations like it hadn't happened before. And the thing that I'm really proud of is our values have withstood all of that.
You know, what I saw, and I observe with a lot of my friends that had organizations, is as we went through some of those cultural conversations in which we were surfacing the right things and putting them at the front of decisions and conversations where they should have been for a very long time, a lot of organizations were scurrying to create values that aligned with them because they thought they needed them. And the thing that I'm probably most proud of at GALE and probably long when I'm gone I will be most proud of, is that those values we laid down day one haven't changed. They represent the right side of the conversation. They represent how we should work with each other, how we should treat each other. And when you work at GALE, you believe in those values, and we didn't need to change one word on them, and that's something I'm super proud of, because I think that the legacy that, frankly I will leave to GALE when I leave, which is how those values, frankly, create better humans. And then that goes back to my creativity and believing in people more than they believe in themselves.
Charles (22:23):
So given that you've planted the values into the DNA of the business and people's behavior, and given your focus, consistent focus on unlocking the potential of others, how do you define success? When you look at your life, when you're sitting there in the most reflective moments of, "How am I doing?", how do you define success?
Brad Simms (22:40):
You know, it's really about impact. It's micro moments that ladder up to macro definitions of success. I'm really proud that of the seven folks that I founded the agency with, I think I was invited to five of their weddings, I knew folks before they were married, and now they have kids and they have families. They are different humans. They have grown, in some small part. Hopefully being a part of GALE has made that journey better for them.
I am fired up about how when someone joins GALE out of school or new into their career, and we teach them core life skills like simplicity, presentation, conflict management, which conflict management could be with your roommate. It could be with your barista. Like, we're teaching folks those life skills. That, for me, is the macro impact that I'm really proud of when I look back, is that the 1,300 people that have spent time at GALE in the last eight or nine years, and how we've had a small, very small, impact on hopefully making them better humans. And, for me, that's what it's all about. It's not going to be about the marketing campaigns and it's not going to be about the clients. It's going to be about knowing that we just believed in folks and we help them be everything they possibly could be. And that, for me, is the entire legacy that I hope to leave.
Charles (24:06):
You've got above average, I think in some... by some regards, way above average retention rates.
You've really clearly found a way to create a culture and an environment that people want to be a part of. Part of that in any business for whom creativity and innovation is critical to their success, is about encouraging and supporting people's ability to take risks. How do you do that? What do you do to create the environment in which people really feel like, "I can emotionally lean in and I'm not going to be ridiculed for this crazy idea"? How do you build that kind of culture?
Brad Simms (24:36):
You know, when you think about an organization, you think about the internal component of it, and then you think about the external component, which is, you know, how do you go to market? The reality is, although I one day may very well be involved deeply in one, GALE's not a charity, so we are a commercial organization. And I think that one of the things that we've been really successful at in the marketing space with our business agency positioning is really being innovative and disruptive, and taking big swings to change the way marketing works.
If you look at GALE, we are one of a few, not unique, but one of a few organizations that has basically reassembled the marketing broken egg, and that brings media and creativity and everything back together. But to do that, we've taken some big cuts and really leaned in on some big ideas. That posture, that feeling exists at GALE, and that then encourages folks, whether it's at a campaign level or a piece of code level or a press release level, to have that type of body language, that type of swagger, take that type of risk. Because, frankly, I think that's what draws folks to GALE.
I don't think folks are here to just be doing media or just be working on CRM or just be work— Because they could go— They're here to redefine what advertising agencies could be about for clients and that involves taking some risks. And so I think that when we look at our external kind of flow, it's kind of built into it, and so I think folks are here for the heavy culture on the inside, and the kind of, like, we're disrupting and innovating on the outside. And when you bring that together, it creates this really awesome kind of alchemy feeling, this kind of connected feeling, that I think is super special.
Charles (26:23):
So casting the people that come to work at the company is critical for you guys. And obviously you've talked about how important it is that you filter them through the lens of the values that they bring naturally coincide and connect with the values that you bring. What other characteristics are you looking for as you're casting talent?
Brad Simms (26:40):
Yeah, so, I think the process is so important. So when someone comes into GALE, they go through four interviews, and those interviews are senior and junior, skills, values, leadership. But in any of those four interviews, if someone just isn't feeling that connection, we won't hire that person. So that's right off the top. We could have a VP coming in that's being interviewed by someone that's been in the agency and in the industry for two years, and if they're not feeling it, they don't come in.
So that is a filter. It's kind of like a reinforcing organism, GALE. The other thing is, you know, I think there's, like, a passion and a curiosity that I think sits at the core of someone that wants to join GALE. And I think one of the things that's also really unique about GALE, which I've observed, is, when you're an organization of 700 plus people, occasionally some folks are going to join and they might not be a fit or…. The organization self polices itself in a really respectful way, and I actually appreciate that. It's almost become an environment in which if someone who's an unbelievable human joins, but it's just not the right fit for them, in a really respectful way, you feel it, and then we have a conversa— It's almost become a living organism, our culture.
And it starts with the process to get folks in. It starts with the passion, the curiosity. And then it just starts, it's just kind of about being here and being in the flow and making the contributions that you can.
Charles (28:08):
So what you've just described resonates with me. I think a lot of leaders, however, struggle with the recognition of, we can have a great human being who can be brilliantly talented and they just don't fit, and we're not a good fit for them. And they struggle with having that conversation early enough. Obviously you've got a culture that promotes that. But do you do anything on top of that to make sure that you're helping to create the right kind of connections with the right kind of people?
Brad Simms (28:33):
Yeah. There's a few things we do. So one of the things that we did, and I suppose it was, like, five years ago, is we started hiring business coaches, so people coaches. So they're not HR. And I remember our very first one, Coach Cory, but they're organizational development and learning humans. And they work with our people at GALE to have those open and honest conversations that really live up to the, "We're trying to create better human being," belief. And the reason they're not connected to HR is because I want to give that group the latitude to say to someone, "Look, Sally or Bill or John, if you're at this point in your career, actually, GALE's not the right step for you. Let's have a conversation about how maybe you want to go to a product company, or maybe this is the right step for you."
But they're untethered from the mechanism of HR that allows them to have an authentic relationship, an authentic conversation with folks about their career development at GALE or not at GALE, and they're empowered to have that conversation. Because I think that's what really believing in humans is about. You know, folks aren't going to work at GALE for the rest of their lives. It is part of their journey, and I want to make sure that not only the entrance into GALE is unbelievable, but I believe that exits are more important than entrances. And so, is that exit as fulfilling as that entrance? And are we as respectful and grateful for their time here?
And even if that time is six weeks, because they're in and they just realized that this is just not what they expected, still treat it with the same type of respect as if someone's been here for six years. And that organization of coaches is really about having those conversations in confidential ways with all of our humans at GALE.
Charles (30:29):
Clearly you're very thoughtful, and clearly you put concept into action. It strikes me, hearing you talk, that this is a multidimensional approach to building a business. As you look back at what you've done so far, and obviously your career's a long way from being over, do you have any regrets at this point as you look back?
Brad Simms (30:49):
Regrets. I'm sure I have some, but I'm not so sure that any of them are percolating. I mean, I would say this falls into the micro versus the macro. I think a little bit of the path that I've been on, frankly, I've had great fortune. I think I've had a combination of good luck and good timing. There are absolutely micro moments that I've had with folks or with interactions with people that I wish I had done differently. And frankly, they weighed heavy on me for a very long time, a very long time.
The bigger shifts, frankly, are easier to move through. Should we have done this? Did I regret doing that? Should we have taken the business here? Should we have thought about that? Like, frankly, if I made a list, I probably could come up with them. But those are actually easier to move by than those one moment interactions or someone had decided to move on and just illustratively, I didn't spend that extra five minutes with them on their last day. I spent three minutes. But I had a few more things to— Those are the things that, frankly, pile up, because those are the things in which that interaction at that moment could have made a difference.
The big business shifts, it's going to move, we're going to move, we're going to figure that out. But it's really those more micro interactions that, frankly, when I think back, I'm like, "There could have been a little bit more there. I could have given a little bit more there." And those are the ones I try to keep front of mind because those are the ones I don't want to repeat.
Charles (32:19):
You're clearly not afraid of disruption and you're clearly not afraid of taking responsibility. What's your relationship with fear? How do you look at fear?
Brad Simms (32:29):
I think you have to be respectful of it, because, I think to say you ignore it, I think is frankly not true. I think as humans, we are wired to acknowledge fear. But sometimes you're at this moment where what you... as a leader, what you fear the most is sometimes the most rewarding to push through. And if you think about it, when I started GALE, I came off the field of working for a very successful organization at a very senior level, and we had no clients. We had no name. We had no organization.
When I decided we were going to go to New York as an example, that's a big step, right? Start in Toronto, come to New York. When we opened up in India, that was a big step. I think I try to have a healthy relationship with it, because sometimes it can also guide you to not do the things you shouldn't do. And so I try to respect it. I try to be in tune with it. But I would say the majority of time, I try to push through it, because it sometimes generates the most rewarding outcomes.
Charles (33:44):
You've had an extraordinary journey. You built an extremely successful company by any definition. Most people will never have the kind of role that you're playing, right?
Brad Simms (33:54):
Mm-hmm.
Charles (33:55):
What's the job really like? When do you wake up in the morning and go, "Oh my God, is this really... this is my responsibility as well as my opportunity"? How do you feel about this job?
Brad Simms (34:07):
I mean, you know, if you think about it, there are 750 people that work at GALE. Ish. There is a fair amount of pressure because even when I talk about great people and great clients and our culture, the reality is people opt in here, we're a critical component of their livelihood, right? We pay them a salary. We provide them with benefits. And I take that very seriously. I take it very, very seriously that folks make a decision to work at GALE. And then we become really ingrained in their family and their success and their personal development. And I take that responsibility very seriously.
When we, about 16 months ago, were seeing massive inflation in, well, frankly everywhere, you know, our people were getting crushed. They were getting crushed. I remember, in a very privileged story, I stop at this restaurant on my walk home here from the office, and I used to get this salmon dish and I read a book and I just try to decompress. And I looked down at it one day and I noticed it was, like, $9 more expensive than it had been three months earlier. And as I was walking home, I'm like, "If I'm three years into my career, living with two roommates in Brooklyn, getting hammered by this type of inflation, that's super problematic." I took that very seriously.
And we did something really interesting, which is we put an inflation stipend in place for folks that were making under a certain amount of money globally, to basically help them at that moment. And we did it because it was the right thing to do. But one of the things that I'm really left with by that was all the emails and the feedback I got from the people at GALE. I mean, it was very, very impactful for folks because they were. I mean, frankly, a lot of these humans couldn't even define inflation, because we've lived in a 2% inflation economy forever. And now all of a sudden, it's crazy. And the rent was going up and the cost of fuel was going up and the cost of gas was going up. And we knew that we didn't need to go to the top of the VP that was making X number $100,000.
But if you were making $70,000 and living in Brooklyn or Kansas City or LA, you were living a completely different life at that moment. And it's those type of moves where you can have that type of impact on folks that is part of that legacy question. Those are the type of moves I want to make for folks to take that pressure off them at that moment, to allow them to be, frankly, the best people they can be and not have to worry about potentially getting another job or not being able to afford this at the grocery store. We didn't need to be there, and we could do something to help them out. And I take that very, very seriously. It weighs very heavy on me to make sure we're doing everything we can for our people.
Charles (36:59):
Last two questions for you. How do you lead?
Brad Simms (37:05):
I say to folks, "I'm never going to ask you to do anything I won't do myself," because I think as a leader, it's easy to say, "Well, I'm running a large organization now, so I'm administering and I have this and I have that." But frankly, we're in the people business. You know, at GALE, we're in the people business. And, I want to know what it's like to continually walk in everyone's shoes, every single day. Now that doesn't mean I'm buying media in a system or I'm definitely not a copywriter and I'm not writing code. But as a leader, if you become disconnected from how your decisions impact the work that folks do every day, then I think, frankly, you become an administrator and not a leader. And I think as a leader, I want to be close enough to the work so that I know when I say, "We're going left," or, "We're going right," I know exactly what that means to folks because I'm close enough to what they do to know how going left or right is going to impact what they do.
So I never ask anyone to do anything that I won't do. And I think that that's really core, I think, to my approach to leading.
Charles (38:18):
And what are you afraid of?
Brad Simms (38:25):
You know, I think I am aware of the impact that we have at GALE on the folks that choose to work here. I think I am continuously concerned that there are lots of factors that affect businesses, sometimes you control and you don't control. And I think I am concerned, maybe not afraid, that the experience and the impact that we have on the people that work at GALE some way might be diluted or impacted by something that I don't control, but yet rolls down hill and happens. And that keeps me up at night, because I’ve got to make sure that doesn't happen.
Charles (39:08):
I want to thank you for coming on today. I am struck by the depth of the thinking and the breadth of the thinking that you've clearly put into this company, and also appreciative of your willingness to be so self reflective in this conversation. I've really enjoyed meeting you and I thank you again for coming on the show.
Brad Simms (39:26):
Thanks for having me. It's been great to chat with you.
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