Leading In The Time Of Virus
"FEARLESS CREATIVE LEADERSHIP" PODCAST - TRANSCRIPT
Episode 211: 72andSunny
This episode is our eleventh of Season 2 - which we’ve sub-titled, “Leading In The Time Of Virus”.
In these conversations we discover how some of the world’s most innovative and creative leaders are adapting their leadership to our new reality.
These people are among the world’s best problem solvers.
This episode is a conversation with the people who lead 72andSunny - John Boiler, Glenn Cole, Matt Jarvis and Evin Shutt.
Partnerships are hard. In some cases they’re destructive.
This partnership is one of the best I’ve ever seen.
We talked about connecting and reconnecting, about resilience, and about reimagining the future.
Here are John, Glenn, Matt and Evin.
Charles: (1:00)
Evin, Glenn, Matt, John, welcome back to the show. Thank you very much for agreeing to come back on the show in this rather different reality. Last time we did this, we were sitting in an apartment in Cannes much closer than six feet apart and now we are scattered across America. Evin, let me start with you. How are you doing? Where are you? Where are you located? Who are you quarantining with?
Evin Shutt: (1:23)
I'm doing well. I am quarantining with my husband and my 7-year-old twins and also with my parents and father-in-law. So very fortunate to be able to help them out, but they are also helping us out tremendously and is quite the sociological experiment having so many generations under one roof.
Charles: (1:46)
I can imagine. Are you also having to homeschool your kids?
Evin Shutt: (1:50)
Yes. Yes.
Charles: (1:53)
Wow. So you're literally wearing every hat every day.
Evin Shutt: (1:57)
Yes.
Charles: (1:58)
Daughter, parent, CEO.
Evin Shutt: (2:01)
It's quite the ride.
Charles: (2:04)
I hope you're taking notes and you're going to write a book because there's a book in this. Glenn, where are you?
Glenn Cole: (2:10)
Hi Charles. I am in central Oregon, just outside Bend, Oregon where there's a little more elbow room and I'm with my wife and son who's 13 and my daughter who's 10 and both are getting incredibly creative and inspiring on TikTok. My wife is in education. So the schooling is more manageable thanks to her, although it is a challenge. I think most parents are experiencing these screen challenge, which is how can you get the hours down to like single digits on all the screens. It’s tough.
Charles: (2:51)
Yeah. Forming habits you're going to have to break again in a few weeks.
Glenn Cole: (2:54)
Yeah. Exactly. We've allowed them to happen, but I think got it down to about six a day, which I feel like is actually winning. The Internet tells you that's not winning. They'll tell you that's losing but...
Charles: (3:04)
Old rules. I think those were old rules.
Glenn Cole: (3:06)
Yeah, exactly.
Charles: (3:08)
John, where are you and who are you with?
John Boiler: (3:11)
I'm in Palm Springs, California and with my wife and my daughter who's 18, college student at University of Oregon, out of her bedroom and my son who's 16.
Charles: (3:27)
It looks warm where you are.
John Boiler: (3:30)
Yeah. It's been in the hundreds every day for last week.
Charles: (3:34)
Is that good or bad? Is that helpful or not?
John Boiler: (3:36)
I'm not complaining about anything at this point. My life is good. I feel very fortunate. We all do so no complaints. It is sunny and warm.
Charles: (3:48)
And Matt, thanks for jumping on this. I know you're on a phone, so it's going to sound slightly less than optimal, but where are you and who are you with and how are you doing?
Matt Jarvis: (4:00)
I have a cabin up by Point Conception in Central California. So I am there. I am with my two dogs. One that I've had for about five years and one that is a puppy. My family has been coming up here on the weekends and then I've been here, up here solo or just with the dogs during the week.
Charles: (4:39)
You are technically on sabbatical, right?
Matt Jarvis: (4:43)
I'm more than technically on sabbatical. Yes. I'm spending my time, taking that the extra time really to connect daily with my parents and to catch up with people and just find ways to connect more deeply during this time where I think everybody craves that. The purpose of the sabbatical is really to integrate all of this journey of 72andSunny that we've been on and that I've been on and recharge the tank for the next chapter. So that's going quite well.
Charles: (5:28)
I don't know that you have any way of knowing how to answer this question, Matt, but I'm going to ask you anyway. I'm curious. How do you think your sabbatical has been different because it's happening during this time than you imagined it would be? Has it been different than you imagined it would be?
Matt Jarvis: (5:46)
Well, to me the most important thing about stepping away for a two-month period was feeling like the company was in as good or better hands during that absence. And with Evin becoming the CEO of the company and formerly our leader, being able to leave knowing that... That's been a project we've been contemplating for more than five years. And just knowing that we've been able to execute, I think a really successful and healthy transition so far, succession plan, was the most important thing going into this. And I feel great about that project.
The intention was really to take time to think and like I said, integrate the totality of the experience so far so that I can be a better partner to these guys and a better steward of the company going forward. So when you kind of ahead of time, are committed to taking a journey inside versus around the world, being shut off from the rest of the world actually isn't that much of a change. It's certainly these times have brought a lot of depth and a lot of contemplation for all of us. There's a lot of pain in the world. There's a lot of green shoots and blessings and maybe we didn't pay attention to until this time came upon us. So I'm getting the benefit of all those wild swings, emotional swings that we're all going through. So I get the benefit of that during this time where I really wanted to develop some depth. So it hasn't been that different, to be honest with you.
Charles: (7:43)
So Evin, when did you take on the role officially of being CEO?
Evin Shutt: (7:48)
I believe it was seven weeks ago. Not that I'm counting, but I can time it with about as long as we have all been in work from home mode, which is about seven and a half weeks. So I guess it's more like six and a half weeks.
Charles: (8:05)
So as you stepped into that role and you were then confronted by this time, how have you had to adapt what you thought the job was going to look like into what the job has suddenly become for you?
Evin Shutt: (8:16)
Well, I think anytime you go into a new role, you have a vision and a long term plan of how things might evolve. And obviously with what the world is facing right now, the first few weeks were spent in crisis management which I didn't foresee happening and we needed and very quickly got deeper in the business and deeper in relationships with our leaders across the world than I would have in that amount of time. So looking back on it, that's a huge positive of the outcome there. But the immediate turn to crisis management was not something I had planned, but I think it's allowed me to get deeper in the business, strengthened relationships with our leaders and our understanding of our business and the opportunities and where we're coming out of it now.
Not that we're coming out of the pandemic, but the crisis management is, we've got really amazing leaders, which we knew, who know what to do and know how to handle it. And it's allowing us to take a step back and need to take a step back and look at what's next and where are we headed. What's exciting to me is this current opportunity, as horrible as it is around the world and need to acknowledge the lives that are being impacted and the challenges that so many people are facing. For us it can be an acceleration of where we want to take the company and what we can do and visions we've had. Which is for me, rooted in who this company is from the start, ‘Born Modern’ is our mantra. And comfort with change and embracing it. It doesn't mean that's easy, but this opportunity is going to allow me to really accelerate what we see as the future of a modern agency in a really good way.
Charles: (10:06)
How far out are you looking at? What's your time horizon?
Evin Shutt: (10:11)
Well, we have the uncertainty of when this will end is just that, uncertainty. So we can choose to kind of rack our brains and look at every possible outcome and risk, but that's different than the uncertainty. So instead we're just starting to plan for how do we change what our product is, how we relate to each other from a talent standpoint and how we show up as an agency to our partners every single day from here on out. So I don't think there's like a time horizon other than the now. I think there's evolution that we need to make right now that will impact how we work ongoing.
There's of course on the side, all the contingency plans that the team is more than capable of implementing of return to work, what does that look like? But for me, I'm like, what is the use of space ongoing for an agency? We should evolve what that looks like. Culture has changed. What does our product look like? How do we do that best for our clients? So I think the horizon is much longer that I'm talking about. But the change starts now.
Charles: (11:19)
Yeah, for sure. Glenn, how are you guys connecting with each other? How often and how are you communicating to this stuff?
Glenn Cole: (11:27)
We connect as a leadership team I think at least a couple times a day. And on one-on-ones it's probably a lot more than that. There's a lot of, we try to replicate the experience we had in the office where between meetings you can kind of quick compare notes on things you're hearing as you go to your desk and grab something on your way to somewhere else. That gets recreated through quick side phone calls or quick side Hangouts and then there's a lot more planned gatherings with a little bit more rigorous sticking to the agendas before you run out of time.
In terms of the company at large, I feel I've been more probably connected to the different office cultures in the last seven weeks than I had in the previous seven months. I've just made every effort to try to attend every one of the big group Hangouts. Sometimes they have a standing weekly and it's business information. They've also introduced some happy hours and some other creative reasons to get together and wherever I can, I try to say yes and attend and participate if I can. So that's been gratifying. Partly, like Evin said, there is a real sense of increased connection. I don't really subscribe to the term social distancing. I do think that's an unfortunate term, physical distancing is what's required.
Social distancing is exactly what we don't need. So I think the more we can keep social closeness, physical distancing the better and I'm kind of trying to roll that way. It's really fun to see. There are leaders who are emerging through this, simply because the forum of Hangouts and Zooms prioritizes a speaker. So if somebody decides to bring their voice to a conversation, they might not be like a person sitting among the general staff on like our stairwell. They will be the full frame screen just like Evin was a second ago or an office leader was a second ago talking and it carries kind of the weight of… the same weight. I think they feel empowered by it. I think others see that they can [inaudible] a forum and like the Roman sense, it's truly a forum. You have the stage. That's really exciting to me. I observed that in the first couple of weeks and that's one of the things that's kept it exciting and sticky for me to join all those meetings and see who's going to take the stage next.
Charles: (14:03)
Yeah. It's really credited a democratization hasn't it? Across businesses so very much as you've just said, I've heard that from a lot of people that they're surprised, pleasantly surprised to see who's showing up in different ways and stepping into the digital void. John, one of the things that I picked up from you, learned from you very early on in our relationship was how much value you placed in getting the space right, the physical environment of the company right.
And when that's now suddenly turned into a two dimensional reference point, how are you thinking about, as we emerge from this, how are you thinking about what space is going to need to be able to provide? I mean, obviously we're going to get into, there's going to be more physical distancing, right? No matter what this looks like, they're going to be, period. How are you thinking about space and how are you thinking about human interaction?
John Boiler: (14:51)
Yeah, well, to be honest Charles I've never been more excited about rethinking everything that we've done. Really, I think the reason why we had those early conversations around physical space was about how to create productive environments. Just an environment where the right people can contribute and collaborate and put their thing forward. And just to what Glenn just said and I think we're all seeing is, wait a second, physical space does have a role and will ongoing have a role, and I'll get to that in a second. But the virtual space has elevated voices in ways that some of our early physical space experiments couldn't ever achieve at scale. They've really brought scale to the democracy, the democratization of creative contributions. Then ongoing, I think Glenn, Evin and I have had a lot of exciting conversations about what the modern agency of the future is going to literally look like.
What does it need to be, whereas, all kinds of fun metaphors have emerged whereas it used to be churches and it was really important to have those churches accommodate like a large congregation. Maybe it's more temples is what we need where people can just check in with one another. What are the implications to desks? Now as we look at them it's like, is that just the place where you keep your chotchkies and your bottle of wine that’s been there for six years? What's the use of that? And so we envision a place in the future where our footprint is smaller, the places are really purposeful. You go with purpose and real mindfulness about, why am I going into the office today because I don't need the commute. Nobody needs it anymore.
So then you really know why are you going there? I'm going there to connect with these people, specifically these people for this reason, for this amount of time. I think that's the next lesson that we're going to be learning together is like, how to do purposeful presence and interaction in physical spaces. And we will definitely have to redesign and manifest those spaces differently because they'll be for a different purpose. No one will be really propped up at a desk all day. They will be there to meet with specific people, do specific things, client meetings, collaboration sessions, et cetera. So what's that going to look like? I'd hate to be in the commercial real estate business right now because I think everybody is seeing that there's going to be a drastic reduction in the need for those kinds of spaces.
But strangely I think they'll have a more potent purpose as a physical space. It is going to be a place for cultural connection. You need to have that, like when you get together and you share work. It's the same reason like the NFL, I'm concerned about athletes just taking the field and trying to play a really high intensity sport without fans cheering them on to go for it on fourth down. I do think that we're going to have to be there to cheer each other on in a really present way, but it's definitely not going to look like it has in the past. I think we're all really excited about it, really welcoming of it.
Charles: (18:21)
I think taking office space forward and making it more intentioned and purposeful makes a ton of sense to me. But as Glenn alluded to, how do you also make sure that you are creating enough opportunity for that classic water cooler moment where the bypassing of two ideas or two people sharing an idea? One of the things again that I learned from you guys early on in our relationship was you had the wall where ideas were up and anybody could actually stop by and add to that. How do you make sure that you're still gathering that kind of energy?
John Boiler: (18:52)
Yeah, the collisions. The unintended collisions that spark new creative stuff. That's again, I think the physical space is going to come back and serve that function a little bit. But I think we are finding ways virtually to do that as well. And by looking at… one of the interesting byproducts is we've seen, as briefs come in ,because we're getting so comfortable in this way of working, we start to think about casting of creative and strategic talent completely differently. Whereas as in Evin's words, we don't look at ourselves as geographic offices, inhabited by like sets of talent, but rather individual talent that is globally connected and deploying it as a roster of talent globally rather than an office of talent locally.
That is a way to create those sparks and those random connections because there's new people that are interacting with one another that hadn't had the opportunity to do that before. So I think if you're mindful again about wanting to do that, then you can recast people to create those sparks and those little accidental moments, what it appears to them as an accidental moment of like, oh, suddenly we're sharing something together, working together.
Evin Shutt: (20:15)
Yeah. I would just add to that. I think something this company has been great at since inception is fostering relationships and prioritizing humanity and connection. And it's always been hard to put a commercial value on that, but we've always understood the importance of it. Our office leaders don't compete with each other. There's pride, but they always support each other. And as we move to this more kind of global connected, amazing roster of talent and less tied to our offices, that those connections suddenly are coming to light as so valuable and commercially viable in every way.
So the ability to pick up the phone and call each other and have those collisions, I think we're in a really great spot and very fortunate that we have that because we're able to accelerate those connections remotely and build them deeper when you're calling someone in their home or on a Hangout with them. I think we've seen the deepening of some relationships and connections. I felt that for sure. You didn't call people a lot in the past. You saw them in the hallway or you had a formal meeting or you sent an email. But the phone call and the one-on-one Hangout just requires a new level of focus and intensity for those connections.
Charles: (21:30)
Yeah, and I'm sure you've seen, what I've heard from a lot of people is that the importance of creating real meaningful connection at the beginning of each of these calls is really important. The people are genuinely interested when they say, “How are you?” They care about the answer to that question. It's not one of those cursory check the box, you walk into a conference room and just say it and then move on immediately to the agenda. That there is a much deeper level of connection, to your point. I'm hearing that from across the board. Matt, I'm curious because you've got a different relationship with what's going on than the rest of your partners do. You are connected but also able to be more sort of slightly removed from it.
What are you seeing that you think is going to come out of this and the sort of the mid and long term at a general level, but for businesses in general, whether for 72 or just in general? What are you observing that you think is going to be one of the last… will be the lasting benefits of this?
Matt Jarvis: (22:24)
Well, I think the lasting benefits for 72andSunny really are around... What I've observed is we're getting a return, a really good return on our long term investments. If you think about, what is 72andSunny really invested in since the beginning, we've invested in bringing together truly elite talent across the world. And we've invested in long term relationships based around collaboration. So each of our regions has someone running them that has been at the company, let's say, at a minimum eight years, oftentimes 10, 14 years. So really… we're not starting to say, “Hi, how are you?” right now. We've been saying it since the beginning. So we have this incredible kind of like cultural continuity and foundation, that we can then I think more elegantly layer this diverse talent on top of. So if talent and human connection are the two things that 72andSunny… two of the things, I would say, really impactful creativity would be the third.
Then all of those things are strong, strong foundations for us to build off of. I think it's created a lot of short term resilience. The company has been incredibly resilient as - another thing that doesn't show up on the balance sheet - as a result of it. But now I think the exciting opportunity is to take those essences and manifest them for this new world that is emerging. We know at the core it's going to be about human connection between us because that gives us great meaning. We know that it's going to be about incredible talent because we know that's really how we bring so much value to our clients. And one of the reasons they come to us because we have talent who does things that they can't do on their own as an organization.
Then the ultimate product, which is the thing that we're really addicted to, which is creative impact, now is going to have all kinds of new forms and shapes. So when I look off on the horizon for 72andSunny, I see our core ideas and our true essence remain very much intact. In fact, I'm feeling rather, I think collectively we're feeling rewarded for those decisions. But now they're going to manifest differently. They're going to have smaller teams, more hybridity in the talent base, faster, more agile response to culture because culture is going to be changing at a faster rate than it has. So all of those things are on the horizon. But ultimately what we do is we work with the world's best brands and the world's best ideas and help them connect with people in ways that these companies aren't necessarily suited to do completely on their own. Because who can? An outside perspective is always helpful for someone to shine a light on that corner you didn't think was special, but it could be magnificent for the outside world. So 72andSunny remains very much, I think, the company we build and know and love, but the way it's going to meet people both inside the organization and out in the world is the unknown that we're charging into and helping our clients navigate those waters. There's a great piece in the Wall Street Journal by Charlie Munger who pretty much said, "Anyone who tells you they know what's going to happen definitely doesn't know what they're talking about." The world's greatest investor and he's thrown up his hands saying, "I have no idea." That comfort with uncertainty. We talk about comfort with change, but comfort with uncertainty is one of the most challenging things to ask.
I'm so grateful we have 15 years of collective muscle memory doing that and that we have each other aligned in that spirit and almost like… with almost a religious fervor to it that it's not just something we have to do. It's something that we want to do. It's something that's going to be fun to do and it's something that can unlock the amazing talent that is 72andSunny.
Charles: (27:13)
Yeah. I think that certainly resonates to me in terms of, as I understand you guys and as I have known you guys over the years. Glenn, I was interviewing Nils Leonard a couple of weeks ago and he talked to me about the fact that he had seen the solitude or the relative isolation that people were going through as producing better work because it gave people more ability to focus and think about what they were doing in a different kind of environment. Just the ability to get away from people for awhile. What are you seeing in terms of creating an environment in which creativity can really flourish? What's changed or what surprised you about this or what have you benefited? How have you benefited from this?
Glenn Cole: (27:51)
Well, the one thing I'm seeing, I think we're all seeing in our culture is radical experimentation. We're already, as Matt said, we already invested in a promotion of radical experimentation from day one. So that's not a new thing, but I think what our people are finding is that it is more quickly and readily received. People are more willing to go along with the experiments both internally and on the client side. In a chat with Matt the other day, he had a nice way of framing it. As the world is… all the news is talking about closing, everything's closing, there's a real opening happening in our culture and the minds of everyone in the company are I think more open than ever. Not just the creative people, but everybody in every role.
They're open to trying new things. Maybe indulging a seed of an idea that you might be more quick to dismiss in an office environment. And there's also our clients are also open to, “What have you got?” Because they’re uncertain too, they don't know where their business is going to be in two weeks or two months. And it gives us a real chance to show up and say, "Well, here's what we see, both in your business and in the environment in general." And I just find them to be listening. So that's really exciting. That's manifested itself in a couple of ways in the work we've done over the last month, some of it was just, "Hey, we should respond." Like in the early weeks it was like, "We should respond to what's going on and help. Brands can help more than, in some ways, in many ways, governments can help."
Our team in LA, they've launched a pirate radio station from inside Call of Duty. Call of Duty is one of the activations, one of the pride brands. It's doing okay through this because everybody's staying at home and occupying themselves with video games. Now it's a way to stay socially connected. So rather than promoting the game, we're trying to promote what people are doing from within it and create and foster and strengthen the sense of community and find content opportunities in that.
It's called Live from War Zone. They had that idea and launched it within two weeks. That's I think also part of the openness. There's the openness not just to indulge the ideas or to pursue that wild hare, but there's a real openness to just like, let's try it. Let's prototype it. Let's put it out and see if it's successful, if it's not, okay. That does not feel like the high stakes world of like high commerce. That feels more like start-up-y days and entrepreneurial startups and for both the communication side and the brand side. So that's exciting.
Charles: (30:54)
I want to go around the screen and ask each of you this question and I'll start with you John. What have you learned about yourself in the last seven or eight weeks?
John Boiler: (31:04)
Well, one thing is like, I learned that we were really as a family like each other and that's neat. I guess it's, I learned that I'm not the distant dad that sometimes I was concerned about being. I've re-learned the importance of connection. I think if I'm honest, I was isolating myself from some of these group agency meetings a little bit or at least receding a little bit from them. This ordeal has given me not only the opportunity, but really the desire to connect in a much deeper level with individuals in the company and offices in the company. And I'll just echo what Glenn said. I've been in more company meetings across the world, like in almost every company meeting almost every week, and have spoken almost every time to every one and had a conversation.
I've had more conversations with the office leaders, with the offices and with the individuals in the offices more than in the last seven weeks and I have probably, if I'm brutally honest with myself, than I have in the last four or five years. I've learned that I love that. I'm less afraid of it. I think I was coloring myself an introvert and in a way, this is opened up an avenue for me to participate in a more extroverted way that is just more comfortable.
Charles: (32:50)
Evin, I'm going to have you answer this question last. So I'm going to ask Matt this question before we get to you. Matt, what have you learned about yourself?
Matt Jarvis: (33:00)
Well, I've learned a lot about this relationship with these three other people, with Evin, Glenn and John. I've really missed them, like really missed them. I don't miss some of the stressors of the day-to-day but I do miss that connection and I'm just mindful of how powerful and resilient and awesome that is and how unique it is. When things get hard, when the screws tighten, you really learn about yourself, you learn about who you're with. And that's been just a really wonderful thing. And then Charles I’ve been spending a lot of time alone and one thing you... I don't have a lot of experience with that but you realize quickly that no matter where you are, you're stuck with yourself. So I've enjoyed wrestling with myself instead of other people wrestling me. So that's been really, I'm not going to say fun, but it's been really productive and exciting and meaningful and definitely enriching.
Charles: (34:24)
And Glenn, what about you? What have you learned about yourself?
Glenn Cole: (34:29)
It's been a really hard few years, on the company side. You know, the industry is so disrupted, everything transforming. I found at times… it's easy sometimes to assign blame, especially to something outside of yourself. I found I think I was doing that at times and thinking escape could be an answer, vacations and travel. But to Matt's point about traveling inward and... I really have discovered I love this thing, this place, these relationships. I love 72andSunny. I love these three partners. I love the people who run our offices and what I learn from them. I love the people who are the future leaders who are kind of emerging. I love the radical weird stuff this thing kicks out. And I love where this... I've come to appreciate what play 72andSunny has I think in a world because it forces you to re-articulate what the values are of the place and why.…
If you're asking yourself an existential question like are we going to still be around in a few months or years? Because it looks like there's… companies that look like they won't be here next month or next year. And are we one of those? I really don't think that's going to... I fundamentally 100% believe that will not be the case. We are here to stay. I've found myself reborn in commitment to it and I find an incredible joy and service to the people and to the idea of 72andSunny. It absolutely fills my cup every day. So that has been, it's almost awkward to talk about how much joy and sense of renewal I'm getting from it at a time when there's so much pain and loss, but that's where I'm at.
Charles: (36:24)
Evin, what about you? What have you learned about yourself? I can't imagine the journey that you've been on over the last couple of months. It's just extraordinary.
Glenn Cole: (36:30)
You've been incredible Evin. You've been incredible.
Evin Shutt: (36:33)
Thank you. I mean, I think, there's like a few words. Resiliency is probably the big one and a lot of stuff falls out from under that. Whenever I'm asked, who do you admire? Where do you draw inspiration? I often say kids as a former teacher and I always point to their resiliency. Kids, the things that some children experience and their ability to pivot and recover and what all kids are experiencing during this time. I think I often put that on others and admire that, including like these three guys on the phone. But I think I've discovered that in myself I'm invigorated by resilience and what I often, I think attribute to my competitiveness is definitely ignited in the like, “We will overcome,” and resiliency, whether that's personal or for the company.
It's driven by a loyalty and a love for what 72andSunny is and the people and all of the deep partnerships and relationships I feel throughout that and with these guys and with our clients and excitement in the like, okay, resiliency keeps going and it cycles through. I think like all of us in this, there's hours where you feel like you're totally blindsided. Then there's days of like just full momentum. So this constant resiliency and how to balance it and be inspired by it and somehow maintain as much as I can down the middle on those highs and lows has been a major learning and constant evolution for me.
Charles: (38:10)
And what do you want the company's legacy to be coming out of this? How do you want the company to be thought of and talked about and what do you want your leadership to be described as coming out of this? Since as Matt said earlier you are now the leader of this group.
Evin Shutt: (38:25)
Yeah. For me, I want my leadership to be about the collective entity and all the leaders we have at the company. I hope it's not just about me personally. Because as everyone has said, we have so many amazing people across the board. I mean, we're seeing people, junior writers leading things and evolving. So I hope it's about 72andSunny's resiliency really and our ability to adapt and change and evolve and not hold firm to some rule book, that others think might apply to us. That we just constantly reinvent and continue to champion creativity and the impact it can have in the world. And show that there's a role for it now more than ever and I think that will be nonstop.
Charles: (39:13)
I want to thank you all for coming back on the show. I've always been struck by the humanity of the way that you guys lead and the connective tissue between the four of you. But I don't think it's ever been more apparent than right now in this particular moment. So thank you for coming on. Thank you for sharing. As always so openly and honestly. I really, I have nothing but best wishes for you guys and for 72andSunny and for your continued and future success.
Glenn Cole: (39:38)
It's mutual Charles.
John Boiler: (39:38)
Thank you Charles.
Glenn Cole: (39:39)
Thank you so much for saying that.
Matt Jarvis: (39:40)
Right back at you Charles.
Charles: (39:42)
Appreciate that.
Evin Shutt: (39:43)
Thank you.
Charles: (39:44)
You guys stay safe. Yeah, you guys too. Really great to see you. Stay safe and well and good luck as you navigate this.
Matt Jarvis: (39:47)
Take care. Take care.
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Let us know if there are other guests you’d like to hear from, and areas you’d like to know more about or questions you have.
And don’t forget to share Fearless with your friends and colleagues.
If you’d like more, go to fearlesscreativeleadership.com where you’ll find the audio and the transcripts of every episode.
If you’d like to know more about our leadership practice, go to thelookinglass.com where you’ll also find links to articles I’ve written for Fast Company and for the Profitable Creativity blog on creative leadership.
Fearless is produced by Podfly. Frances Harlow is the show’s Executive Producer. Josh Suhy is our Producer and Editor. Sarah Pardoe is the Media Director for Fearless.
Thanks for listening.
