Leading In The Time Of Virus
"FEARLESS CREATIVE LEADERSHIP" PODCAST - TRANSCRIPT
Episode 212: Simon Cook
Hi. I’m Charles Day. I work with creative and innovative companies. I coach and advise their leaders to help them maximize their impact.
This episode is part of Season 2 - which we’ve sub-titled, “Leading In The Time Of Virus”.
In these conversations we discover how some of the world’s most innovative and creative leaders are adapting their leadership to our new reality.
These people are among the world’s best problem solvers.
This episode is a conversation with Simon Cook - the Managing Director of Cannes Lions.
The focus of the Lions is to explore, provoke and celebrate the power of creativity and innovation in the business world.
The annual Cannes Lions festival is formed by 20,000+ people coming together every June in the south of France and all that goes with that.
Except this year. When for the first time in almost 70 years, there will be no physical festival.
Simon talked about how to adapt an organization that was built for one reality into one that delivers value to its community even in an entirely different set of circumstances, about the need to eradicate assumed knowledge, and about why walking in London is so important to him.
Here’s Simon Cook.
Charles: (1:20)
Simon, welcome back to Fearless. Thanks so much for coming back on the show.
Simon Cook: (1:23)
Thanks for having me back.
Charles: (1:26)
We were together last, I think in November, which seems like about four lifetimes ago. Tell me where you are spending the lockdown at the moment and how you're doing.
Simon Cook: (1:38)
It does seem like a very long time ago, doesn't it? So I am in London, in Hackney, in my apartment and I have been here for many weeks now, and I don't know what week we're on, do you, Charles? They're all blurring into one.
Charles: (1:54)
Yeah, I think it's like eight or nine isn't it? I mean it seems like both a long time and also crazy fast in some respects. So you're living by yourself. Are you seeing anybody at all? Are you doing, even sort of physically distanced walking with anybody?
Simon Cook: (2:11)
So early on I tried these evening Zoom calls or House Party, I think the app is, and had to abandon that pretty quickly because as you'll appreciate and many people listening will appreciate, when you're on Zoom or Hangouts all day, every day for work, the last thing you want to do is have another one after hours. But yeah, I mean in the local community here, lots of friends who live locally, so we're practicing very regimented socially distance walks, which is doing the world of good actually. It's nice to have that human contact.
Charles: (2:47)
And it's interesting to me, it's important we realize you have to see people three-dimensionally, don't you? I mean it's a startling difference actually when you haven't seen people for a while that you know or you see them through a screen, to suddenly see them again in full relief. It's comforting and reassuring just to have the extra dimension.
Simon Cook: (3:02)
Yeah, it's weird isn't it? I think with the Zooms and everything else … I was reading an article recently which basically broke down really well, why the Zoom call is so draining when you're doing it all day, every day. And if you think about it, the amount of attention that you have to have in order to be engaged and deal with the technological barriers and you've got all of these faces staring at you in a way that never really happens in reality, all these expectant faces. It's a lot actually when you're doing them back to back. But there's also pros as well. It's nice to see people in a completely human state. Your levels of empathy shoot right up when you can see each other's wallpaper and dirty dishes and kids and pets in the background.
Charles: (3:55)
Yeah. I was talking to somebody a few weeks ago, I might have mentioned this on the podcast earlier, but I was talking to somebody who works for a company that has a lot of young kids, in their early twenties. And when this happened, they didn't just go to them, they went back to their family home, to be with their parents understandably, which they had to move back into their childhood rooms. And so they're doing those things in their childhood room.
Simon Cook: (4:16)
Oh, wow. That's brave.
Charles: (4:17)
Showing another side of their personality entirely. You are responsible for the operation of a very, very visible business, in many ways, maybe the most visible business within the creative industries. Cannes is such a reference point within the calendar, and I think also, almost from a, not just a practical standpoint but almost from an emotional standpoint, Cannes itself produces and creates this extraordinary energy. When you had to first postpone and then cancel until next year, the entire event, what was that process like for you from a leadership standpoint? Did you feel the weight of the industry is staring at you as you were going through that process?
Simon Cook: (5:04)
We did, but like with everything, we try and do it in tandem with the industry, with our community, with our customers, with the people that we talk to everyday. I think that was something we tried to do internally and externally, adopt this level of radical transparency about what the plans are, both internal and external and to seek counsel as much as possible and to really take the time to talk to individuals around the world, not just headquarters in New York, to understand exactly the pressures that they were going through. And it got to a point where we postponed, because that seemed like the right thing to do, but the thing with this virus is that, as we know, things are moving so quickly. Decisions that are made on one day are irrelevant the next.
And so we took the decision to cancel purely because of the pain that people are going through and we didn't want to get caught up in that narrative and it was important for us to remove any kind of extra pressure or distraction because we don't want to be that to people. We want to be helpful. We want to find opportunities to bring people together and hopefully we'll still be able to do that in June with what we're planning. But in a way that doesn't put the same amount of pressure on us, the festival would have, perhaps.
Charles: (6:28)
The Cannes Lions Festival has obviously always had a very physical reference point, right? You have to go to a place and show up at a certain part of the year, typically mid to late June. When you had to focus on, were we going to do that or were we not, were we going to postpone that or not, you have a galvanizing force to keep the team together and keep it focused. Now that you have decided to postpone it and you are looking for other ways to provide value to the community, how are you keeping your team together? What's the new focal point for your team, now that the date is no longer quite as relevant?
Simon Cook: (7:04)
The new focal point, and it's not a new one really, it's a reminder, is our customers. And the conversations that we had in the lead up only reinforced that before we postponed and eventually canceled. So we know, and for some time now, we've been operating throughout the year. A lot of people just think of us as those five days in June. But actually, we are working with the brands, working on the brand side, and helping them raise their creative bar and introduce programs which help them produce better creative because they understand that it's going to help their businesses. And then also we have insight. We sit on 67 years worth of data and we have 67 years worth of winners and shortlisted work, which sit within our digital intelligence platform, the work. And so that's something that we're going to open up during June for the first time ever, so that everyone can experience that. Because now more than ever, we recognize that creativity matters and it's needed and we need to provide some kindling, I think, because as you know, when there's great constraint and limitation, that's arguably when creativity flourishes the most.
So if we can help stoke that fire with a little bit of inspiration that we have from our archive, that's great. But in terms of focus for the team and throughout the year, we'll be focusing very much on next year's edition. But in the meantime, we are going to run, throughout the month of June, an experience which will culminate during our usual festival dates, when we're going to open up the platform, there'll be learning experiences, networking experiences, hopefully inspiration from around the world. And we'll try and create a moment where people can come together albeit virtually, not in a way that tries to replicate the festival because we can't do that. I don't think digital events really, really work, if I'm honest. And so we'll try and create something unique because we feel we have a responsibility to do that and people can respond to that however they wish to. It's for absolutely everyone. We're not charging for that.
Charles: (9:18)
There's a very specific set of skills that go along with building and running an organization that delivers on the kind of experience that Cannes does. What you're now developing and what you're now dealing with requires a very different set of skills and a different mindset. And obviously when you are sitting by yourself in your flat in Hackney and trying to get people to think differently, how have you gone about changing people's mindsets and understanding about what their responsibilities are, what their focus should be, how they should think about the problem?
Simon Cook: (9:45)
Yeah, it's definitely a reset moment, and we talk about what their focus is on. We made it very clear that what we're going to try and achieve in June this year, is the focus. We have other people and certain individuals thinking about the future because you need to do both in tandem. But we had to change our mindset really quickly. And I think you do that by hopefully painting a convincing vision that people can really get behind. But it is difficult because the decision making has to be so much quicker. You know Charles, because you're close to the event, that when we finish in June and go back to our headquarters in London, we don't take six months off, although that would be lovely. We start working on the next edition immediately because it takes a year and has so many moving parts that it becomes this huge operation.
But also because it's been running for so long. It's like a dance where everyone knows the steps. And so because of that, it manages to come together in this, sometimes chaotic, but beautifully coordinated way because everyone knows what they're doing. I think the difference is with this, is that it's exciting and we're trying something different but people don't know the steps of this dance. And time is also limited. Usually we have the luxury of time and we're able to curate and finesse and consult with the industry and we're having to do that in a completely different way, in a very truncated amount of time, which is terrifying but also exhilarating because we hope that this will have a long lasting appeal for the people that we're doing it for. And it's a mentality, it's a cultural thing. Look, I think we've always been at our best when we are responding to a problem. And it's been great to see, I'm immensely proud of the team and what they're doing under such pressurized circumstances. Everyone's very emotionally wedded to the event. But the minute we announced that we weren't going to do it and we're going to try something else instead, they've immediately thrown themselves into making that happen. And so it's lovely to see that human ingenuity and that passion.
Charles: (12:07)
There's a real energy about Cannes. I mean there's an energy obviously when you go. There's an energy about your organization and there's a real chemistry that comes from the people that work with you and around you. I'm curious from a personal leadership standpoint, how have you had to adapt your leadership? Were the challenges for you, suddenly being taken out of that very high energy, that very human, that very interconnected sort of energy source and now sitting here, A, by yourself and then working with other people who are sitting either by themselves at home or, to your point, with a small number of family members, how are you managing that evolution yourself, from a leadership standpoint?
Simon Cook: (12:50)
I think you have to eradicate assumed knowledge and you have to over communicate. I mean, it's been amazing speaking to different organizations and brands about internal comms, which is so important right now. I was talking to Jess Greenwood at R/GA recently, and had an amazing conversation that she's the newly appointed CMO, about the importance of internal comms. And so we've just increased frequency. Things are moving so quickly and we're having to make and create things out of nothing so quickly that that ongoing conversation is so important, and it's so important that it comes from me. And because of that, simple things like instead of having a monthly all-hands meeting, we do it once a week with the whole team on Zoom, and it's iterative and we talk about why things are working and why they're not, and give credit where credit's due and be really hard on ourselves about the stuff that isn't working. And it's building the plane as it's flying, but we're constantly doing it together, and everyone hopefully feels a part of that because they believe in it because what we're trying to do, although it's not about the events, that essence is still there and the higher purpose is still there. It's still about driving progress through creativity. It's still about looking ahead.
Charles: (14:17)
Part of leadership is reading body language, isn't it? Being in the room and sensing something about somebody, either positively, or that you have a concern for. How are you dealing with that?
Simon Cook: (14:28)
It's difficult, isn't it? Because when we're in the office that quite often happens outside of meeting spaces. That could be passing someone in the hall and detecting that they're not having a great day or not feeling at their best. And so it's important to check in periodically with people, but then also to set a mentality, internally, with your own leadership team as well. And to make it incredibly apparent and clear that anyone can come to you with anything. To have that kind of open door is sometimes a bit worrying for people because you say, "You can come to me with absolutely anything and everything." Because if everyone beats down your door in one go, that's going to take you away from other things, but I think the knowledge of people knowing that that's a possibility is a very powerful thing in and of itself. And that's why we decided to do a lot of these things together, especially considering the timeframe that we have.
But no, I think in many ways it's brought the whole team much closer to each other. The amount of consideration that goes on, even when checking in on a call, like the kind of conversations that you have before just diving in and talking about trading or operations or marketing, or whatever it is that we're discussing, the level of consideration and extreme empathy that people are feeling for each other and support is something that I hope we manage to hold onto.
Charles: (16:03)
I was talking to Jonathan Mildenhall a couple of weeks ago and he was talking about how important it is for leaders to make sure that they're making time for themselves and nourishing themselves both emotionally as well as practically. How are you taking care of yourself?
Simon Cook: (16:18)
I'm going to be really honest. The first few weeks, not very well at all. No structure, no boundaries. I was working very, very long hours. Creating that kind of distinction between work and home was very difficult. It's only very recently, and we're on week eight, that I've had to reintroduce those things. So if you go back to a normal, in inverted commas, situation, I would walk to work every day and that takes an hour and a half to get from my flat in Hackney to where we work in central London. And I'd love to say that I did that for exercise and for health purposes, but it was really just so I could avoid the Central line. Those of you that know it well, will understand why.
But I've lost that now. There's no need for me to do that, and so I stopped doing it. But then, what that takes away is unwittingly, thinking time, processing time. That walk was meditative in very many ways and also it was a ritual. It was a ritual that took me from one way of thinking to another. And so, from the end of last week, I reintroduced that. And I'm going to be honest, it's sometimes feels a bit pointless doing laps and laps at Victoria Park in Hackney, but it does help me just reset and get into a mode that allows me to have a much more productive day, purely because of the thinking time that you carve out and have for yourself there, which can then be applied to your entire day, which is important.
Charles: (17:57)
I completely understand that. I think London is one of the great walking cities in the world and whenever I'm in London, growing up in London and whenever I come back on business or any reason, I always try and make sure that I build my day so that I can walk from meeting to meeting wherever I possibly can. I mean it is so therapeutic in so many ways. And then obviously there is the entire brain dynamic of having your brain be partially released, isn't there? Because you're doing something that's so familiar and so your subconscious mind just starts problem solving because it's not distracted anymore. Yeah, walking through cities is magical and London especially. London might be the best walking city in the world.
Simon Cook: (18:34)
It's great isn't it? Because when you look up, and actually when you take the time to walk from one place to another, it makes you … well London is like a series of little villages anyway, isn't it?
Charles: (18:45)
Yeah.
Simon Cook: (18:46)
But it also makes you realize how incredibly close some of these landmarks are to each other. Sometimes, perhaps when you first come to London, you take the Tube from A to B, thinking it's miles and miles away, and it's actually just around the corner. And it's the bits in between that are interesting.
Charles: (19:02)
One of the things that Cannes has done a brilliant job, I think, in the last few years taking forward is, it's not simply anymore a celebration of creative work and the power of creative work to drive business, but it is a celebration and an acknowledgement of the power of creativity and creative thinking, innovation to drive business.
I came across recently an economist from the turn of the last century, a man called Joseph Schumpeter, who described creative destruction by which he was really referring to what we now refer to as the free market. And he talks about the fact that societies that allow creative destruction to operate actually become much more productive and much more affluent. And affluence measured in important ways, things like shorter work weeks and higher living standards for instance. Obviously, we are seeing devastating images coming out of this process and we are dealing with not just death but emotional trauma, financial trauma. We're seeing things happening that are going to take years and years to stabilize, I suspect. But out of all of this, inevitably, some good things will happen. You've got a particularly unique, I think, perspective across a lot of different, very powerful industries. What are you seeing that you think is going to change in meaningful ways, in terms of the way that business is done and society is shaped?
Simon Cook: (20:23)
We've been through a stage where people have been in response mode. I'm starting to see now a wave of people thinking about forecast and the future, and also opportunity. And opportunity, a few weeks ago, was a bit of a dirty word. But I think quickly we're going to have to start thinking about that and marrying the two things. And so it's the people that start looking ahead, also start making changes that are less transient, less temporary. I think those people that are making changes now, which will carry some permanence, are probably people taking the smarter path because what we're really doing is redesigning how we live, because people talk about when we get past this, when this ends. It's not going to end. It's going to continue to evolve.
And so, I mean, that works on a personal level, as well. Like I'm very deliberately trying to avoid fads like making banana bread or making my own sourdough from scratch, or whatever else, to really thinking about, "Okay, well, how am I going to redesign my life?" Because some of these things are here to stay. And the sooner we accept that and make those changes, the better, because that's going to put us in good stead for the future. And I think that's probably the same for businesses, as well.
Charles: (21:52)
I mean, it's existential, isn't it? Nothing less than existential, on a personal level and at a business level, in both cases. You really have to decide what's important to you, what matters, what difference do you want to make? What quality of life do you want to have? I mean, it's interesting, I've got parents who are in their 80s, one lives in Florida, one lives in London. And I was talking to my father who just turned 85 last week and he decided he was going to have a "socially distanced" dinner party, which I thought is unlikely to be successful. It might have disastrous consequences. And I was about to start warning him and lecturing him. I thought, “You’re 85, you have to make the decisions that are important for you,” right? I mean, what's the point of shutting it down at 85 and then discovering that you only had, who knows, right? We have no idea. So I think it's existential for all of us and it's really been an extraordinary time of self-reflection, deciding what is important. Have you found that?
Simon Cook: (22:50)
Yeah. I think again, there's a real parallel between the individual and on a business level. During these times of crisis, what we're seeing more and more is businesses return to their core values and really evaluate what are they about. And I think people are doing exactly the same. Now's the time for those values to really shine through and actually mean something, on a personal level, but also at work, as well. You want those values to mean so much more than just living on some style guide in a dusty drawer somewhere. And now's the time to activate them and to think about, do they stand up? Can we live by them?
Charles: (23:38)
What are you learning about yourself?
Simon Cook: (23:40)
I'm learning that structure can be actually very liberating and freeing, which is a bit of a oxymoron isn't it? Like I was saying like, introducing a walk, which I took for granted on a daily basis, which was actually my meditation I guess. But also, I'm learning this is an opportunity to reset and renew, rather than cope with or treat as an impermanent state. If this is our new reality, we need to think about the shifts we're making as permanent rather than passing. And I'm trying to be very conscious of that in the day-to-day. And I'm learning more and more that it's okay to have a thoughtful approach to these things, because we're tackling some pretty big questions where it's all very well saying, speed trumps perfection. But as long as it's thoughtful, that's the main thing. There's some big old tough questions that we're all having to tackle right now. And I think it's okay to create the space to be able to do that and not beat ourselves up about getting there quicker, faster. So I guess, in short, I'm learning how to adapt to the way we live now.
Charles: (25:05)
And what are you afraid of?
Simon Cook: (25:08)
I’m afraid of … So, something just struck me. The last time we spoke, actually, you asked me this question, and it still rings true, which is reassuring, which is, I'm afraid of missing an opportunity. Just because, especially now, that the options for what we can do and how we're going to pivot, most overused word of the month, are endless. And actually, it's really hard. Sometimes there's a paralysis there in that decision making because there are so many options. But I think as long as we make sound decisions rooted in something, again going back to values and what we stand for, we should be okay, he said.
Charles: (26:04)
Well, I think that that's true. I think your point about values is absolutely right and I think that this is a time that is encouraging us, at least, to sit down and think about what's really important to us and how we want to live our lives. Simon, thank you so much for taking the time. I know you are beyond busy and putting together the events for June and the Lions thereafter, but I appreciate you coming back on the show and taking the time to share with us.
Simon Cook: (26:29)
Always a pleasure. Nice to speak to you, Charles.
Charles: (26:32)
And nice to see you too. Take care.
Simon Cook: (26:34)
Take care. Bye-bye.
Charles: (26:34)
Be well.
Simon Cook: (26:35)
You too.
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